Digital TV help needed

Consoles, Computers, iPads, and More.
HD Discussion Elsewhere.
User avatar
grim_tales
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 21733
Joined: 25 Oct 2004, 18:34
Location: St. Albans, UK

Digital TV help needed

Unread post by grim_tales » 28 Jan 2005, 13:02

Hey,

I've heard when we move house there is the possibility of getting NTL digital TV set up in my room (but I'll have to pay £15.99/mo for it or something like that), instead of just normal telly) when an ariel socket/booster is put in).

My problem is that I'm not sure how I can do this easily, at the moment I have a DVD player/VCR in my room with the television with 2 SCART leads the RGB (EXT1) SCART socket being used for DVD and Nintendo Gamecube (but I have to swap them around, that doesnt worry me) and the EXT2 socket for video. Do I need another SCART or something?

If I got Digital TV wouldnt I have to arse about switching leads around from the RGB socket every time I wanted to watch TV/DVD? Not something I really want to do.
Also I want to able to watch one channel and record another on video and stuff.

Brad how do you do this? Do you have a SCART splitter?
When I tried it with my old DVD player I seemed to get slight lines or cross-hatching on the screen :( :wacko:

Phew! ;)

User avatar
bradavon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 24418
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:30

Unread post by bradavon » 28 Jan 2005, 18:51

Does your DVD player have two scarts?

It all depends on how much you love RGB? Because if it doesn't bother you losing it for either DVD or NTL then life is much easier. Let me explain:

Your TV has one RGB + Composite scart and one Composite and possibly S-Video scart. You have a few choices:

Number 1:

1. Plug your DVD player directly into your TVs RGB scart
2. Plug your NTL box directly into the other scart but it will only be composite
3. Plug your VCR into the back of your NTL box

Number 2:

1. Plug your DVD player directly into the non-RGB scart as it may support S-Video (usually one scart is RGB + composite and the other S-Video + composite, look in the manuals). Your DVD player will support S-Video through the scart but you'll need to change it in the manual. Bruce does it this way.
2. Plug your NTL box directly into the RGB scart
3. Plug your VCR into the back of your NTL box

This way everything except your VCR (which ony supports composite anyway, i.e - the yellow phono cable) is coming through in some decent form. However I much prefer RGB to S-Video so wouldn't want to do this.

Personally if I had to choose between my DVD player or Freeview box getting RGB and the other composite I'd make sure the DVD player gets RGB. My old DVD player had two scarts but not RGB loop through so I used to watch Freeview in composite.

I wouldn't want to go back. I have mine hooked up as follows:

1. My DVD player goes directly into my RGB scart on the TV
2. My Freeview (NTL in your case) goes into my DVD player which loops RGB out of the scart in number 1 and to my TV in RGB
3. My VCR goes directly to my TV using the other scart as composite (but it also support S-Video)
4. The second scart socket on my Freeview goes into my VCR for when I want to record

I am lucky in the sense my DVD player has two scarts and even more lucky that the DVD player supports RGB loop through (otherwise it would go to the DVD player as RGB but come out as composite).

[Edited on 28-1-2005 by bradavon]

User avatar
bradavon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 24418
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:30

Unread post by bradavon » 28 Jan 2005, 18:57

If your DVD player doesn't have a second scart and you must have RGB on both your DVD player and NTL box (which I can see why you would want to). You have two options:

1. Get a new TV with 3 scarts, making sure 2 support RGB (some Sony models do)
2. Buy a switch box/splitter. It's important to mention the ones you buy on the high street [b]don't[/b] support RGB. I've tried and the result is a mess. You need an RGB enabled switch box/splitter, such as this one for £30:

[u][url=http://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/dyna ... splay.html]Audio Visual Online[/url][/u]

Using this you could have your DVD player, Gamecube and NTL box all plugged into it and then out to your one RGB scart. This one also has a switch so in theory you won't need to turn the other two devices off.

Many switch box/splitters don't and you need to turn off the other devices to stop interference.

I'm not a fan of switch boxes which is why I've made sure my last two DVD players has two scarts. My next TV will have three scarts as not many DVD players have this function. By far most only have one scart.

[Edited on 28-1-2005 by bradavon]

User avatar
grim_tales
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 21733
Joined: 25 Oct 2004, 18:34
Location: St. Albans, UK

Unread post by grim_tales » 28 Jan 2005, 19:15

Thanks Brad :) I didnt think you needed to spend as much as £30, the one I have is an AV control box, (?) with SCART sockets with an RGB switch on it that you can turn on or off. It wasnt bad (miles better than the first one I got) but as I said you seemed to get slight lines which didnt look good. Maybe I was just being picky :D Cant remember how much it was :D

Given the choice I'd my DVD player to have RGB. Does Digital TV still look good without it? (ie better than normal TV?)

User avatar
bradavon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 24418
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:30

Unread post by bradavon » 28 Jan 2005, 21:45

Digital TV is just like DVD without RGB (especially composite) it looks inferior. Do you think DVDs look good without RGB?

Digital TV is vastly better than analogue crap no matter if it's through a composite yellow phono cable or top of the range component cables (i.e - Red, Green Blue). I'd never go back to analogue now and never bother to watch 1-5 on it.

£30 isn't much compared to a new TV or DVD player! What do you mean a switch to turn RGB on or off? It sounds like you have something similar to the one I linked to.

User avatar
grim_tales
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 21733
Joined: 25 Oct 2004, 18:34
Location: St. Albans, UK

Unread post by grim_tales » 29 Jan 2005, 11:28

Yeah thats right £30 isnt much. I'm not buying a new TV :D
I think my DVD Player only has 1 SCART socket :doh:

No, IMO DVDs look shite without RGB, on my player you can switch between RGB/composite and composite looks truly awful.

I think you're right, with the one I have, you plug one SCART lead going from "TV Input" in the switchbox to your telly, then plug the other SCARTs in. You can manual switch between devices.
I mean there is a "RGB" switch you can press that turns RGB on or off.

I got this SCART video unit is it similar? its much cheaper than £30 though. I'm sure it was reccomended on Old Old Bullets once.

[url=http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/store ... kfrom=name]Here[/url]

[Edited on 29-1-2005 by grim_tales]

[Edited on 29-1-2005 by grim_tales]

User avatar
bradavon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 24418
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:30

Unread post by bradavon » 29 Jan 2005, 13:25

In principle it looks the same but I don't see it "mentioned" as RGB compatible or there is a switch. Is the switch labled as saying RGB?

It sounds like it isn't RGB compatible. The price is a bit cheap to.

User avatar
grim_tales
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 21733
Joined: 25 Oct 2004, 18:34
Location: St. Albans, UK

Unread post by grim_tales » 29 Jan 2005, 13:41

Hmm. Youre right it doesnt say RGB compatible but there is a switch on it saying RGB, I'm sure of it.
I may get the one you linked to instead as it sounds very good and (maybe) my mum can use the old one. She's going to look at it.

saltysam
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 9327
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 19:27

Unread post by saltysam » 29 Jan 2005, 14:41

[quote][i]Originally posted by grim_tales[/i]
Hmm. Youre right it doesnt say RGB compatible but there is a switch on it saying RGB, I'm sure of it.
I may get the one you linked to instead as it sounds very good and (maybe) my mum can use the old one. She's going to look at it. [/quote]that argos box does rgb.i have 2.excellent value.

User avatar
grim_tales
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 21733
Joined: 25 Oct 2004, 18:34
Location: St. Albans, UK

Unread post by grim_tales » 29 Jan 2005, 15:18

Yeah that was what I thought, it doesnt detect the RGB singnal automatically though, and maybe if I have to use it (or buy another one) DVD will look better on it as I've got a new player (not that it was bad before).

User avatar
grim_tales
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 21733
Joined: 25 Oct 2004, 18:34
Location: St. Albans, UK

Unread post by grim_tales » 29 Jan 2005, 17:57

Hey,

I've just realised my VCR (new Panasonic one which is a great VCR IMO) has 2 SCART sockets, and the manual says this:

"RGB means Red Green Blue color signals. If you connect a TV [?] equipped with RGB input capability [Huh? shouldnt I be fine as my TV accepts RGB signals, when using fully wired SCARTs?] to the AV1 socket on this VCR, and a decoder [NTL box in my case] equipped with RGB output capability to the AV2 socket, RGB signals will pass through the VCR to the TV when the VCR is in standby mode. The RGB signals cannot be recorded or produced by this VCR"

I'm intrigued. It sounds like I *may* be able to get RGB on the NTL box after all and still keep the other SCARTs in the right place if I do it through the AV2 socket on my video. I just need another good SCART.

Brad what do you think? :D

User avatar
grim_tales
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 21733
Joined: 25 Oct 2004, 18:34
Location: St. Albans, UK

Unread post by grim_tales » 29 Jan 2005, 19:20

Damn I was so close :D My old DVD player had 2 SCART sockets :doh:

Thanks, I'm not sure when I'll be able to try sadly, as my new room has NO form of TV point/ariel socket in it. :( I'll have to wait until its installed. I also might buy the switchbox you linked to (if my current 1 is not so good).

Thats a pity. Dont they (the manual writers) know that the VCR sockets arent RGB compatable though, so why do they say that?

[quote][i]Originally posted by bradavon[/i]
It should do if it's enabled in your DVD setup.
[/quote]

Yeah my DVD player is set to RGB but I have to still press the RGB switch on the SCART splitter.

[Edited on 29-1-2005 by bradavon]

User avatar
grim_tales
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 21733
Joined: 25 Oct 2004, 18:34
Location: St. Albans, UK

Unread post by grim_tales » 30 Jan 2005, 10:03

Actually Brad, on second thoughts I'll get the one you linked to, that has 5 ( ? ) spaces in it so I wont have to turn anything off or take leads out. I think the one I have only has 4 spaces
Plus the RGB Gamecube cable as well. Is there an RGB switch on the one you linked to?

User avatar
bradavon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 24418
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:30

Unread post by bradavon » 30 Jan 2005, 11:18

[quote][i]Originally posted by grim_tales[/i]
Actually Brad, on second thoughts I'll get the one you linked to, that has 5 ( ? ) spaces in it so I wont have to turn anything off or take leads out. I think the one I have only has 4 spaces[/quote]
It has 4. Why do you need any more than 3? - DVD, NTL, Gamecube.

[quote][i]Originally posted by grim_tales[/i]Is there an RGB switch on the one you linked to? [/quote]
I don't see one, ask them.

I've never seen a switch box with a switch before. I doubt it needs one. I'd try your existing one first, there's no rush IMO.

User avatar
grim_tales
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 21733
Joined: 25 Oct 2004, 18:34
Location: St. Albans, UK

Unread post by grim_tales » 30 Jan 2005, 11:33

OK fair enough. Well I thought it needs 4 - as I have to a scart going from my TV's RGB socket to the "TV Input" connection in the box to get it to "work", plus the other leads. I have to buy an extra SCART lead anyway.

User avatar
bradavon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 24418
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:30

Unread post by bradavon » 30 Jan 2005, 13:58

The other leads you mention are only three though? DVD, NTL, Gamecube.

The scart to the TV is a seperate socket and not part of the equation. The switch box I linked to has 5 scart sockets but 1 is seperate from the rest. So it has 4 sockets to utilise.

User avatar
grim_tales
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 21733
Joined: 25 Oct 2004, 18:34
Location: St. Albans, UK

Unread post by grim_tales » 30 Jan 2005, 14:30

Thats still 1 more than the I have though (by that logic it has 3).
I try the one I have 1st though :)

User avatar
grim_tales
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 21733
Joined: 25 Oct 2004, 18:34
Location: St. Albans, UK

Unread post by grim_tales » 18 Feb 2005, 15:03

We have Sky Digital (not NTL) installed now, and BT Broadband - yay! :D Digital looks miles better than the analogue signal (compare BBC1 on Digital with BBC1 analogue), it blows it away, the image is so much sharper and anamorphic 16/9 for a start :D

However, next week I maaay get Sky Multiroom installed (kind of ;) ), apparently a cable will be run from the Sky box into my room, or something like that, so I can at least watch Sky there. So if mum watches channels 1-5 (terrestial) downstairs, I can watch Sky upstairs, I think :D Its still quite expensive but its a one off payment.

If I cant discuss this (as technichally it isnt really Multiroom as theres no extra box making it cheaper) I apologise.
Brad what do you think? When the installer comes I need to know if
1) I can still use my video and record off TV
2) The image quality will be the same as downstairs.
It is appealing though, I think its better than getting an ariel/booster in to watch just normal terrestial. :)

User avatar
IronMonkey
Royal Tramp
Posts: 1950
Joined: 08 Dec 2004, 16:49

Unread post by IronMonkey » 18 Feb 2005, 23:41

1) You will still be able to use your video to record off TV, and if you tune in the RF signal from your [b]Sky[/b] box (usually set to 68) then you can actually record from it too.

2) The image quality will not be as good as downstairs if your TV is set to receive an RGB signal from your [b]Sky[/b] box. It will be similar quality to your existing TV channels (if you're running them from a main aerial), but at least you'll have more channels to watch.

By the way, why don't you just wire it yourself? It's much cheaper and its really easy to do!

All you need is some standard aerial cable with 2 male plug to attach to the end. You just run that from the "RF out 2" socket on your box to your TV / VCR upstairs and then set the second RF power supply on in the installer's menu on your Sky box.

Add a "mouse" to the TV in your room, and hey presto, you can change the channels from your room with another [b]Sky[/b] remote.

Trust me, it's really easy to do. I did it with my own TV from my parents' box downstairs. Oh, and don't forget to set the second output on the box to 16:9 if you have a widescreen TV!

[color=red][SIZE=-2]To get into the installer's menu, on your [b]Sky[/b] remote press:

- Services
- 4
- 0
- 1
- Select[/SIZE][/color]

You have to press them in that sequence quite quickly. Only turn on the second RF power supply in there. Don't mess with anything else if you don't know what it is!
TH-42PX80 | DMP-BD50 (MR BD & DVD) | SA-XR55 | SB-TP20 | XBox 360 Slim 250GB | XBox (XBMC, 160GB) | Zotac XBMC HTPC | Gaming PC | 8TB Media Server

User avatar
grim_tales
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 21733
Joined: 25 Oct 2004, 18:34
Location: St. Albans, UK

Unread post by grim_tales » 19 Feb 2005, 11:34

Cheers Ironmonkey :)

I've decided that (if I can afford it) I'll go with Sky Multiroom (ie get a second Sky box upstairs), but if I want to watch Sky in RGB (I use my AV1/RGB socket for DVD at the moment) I need a splitter. I'm not sure what to do, its cheaper and easy to do as you say I'd really like to be able to watch different Sky channels to my mum downstairs.. ;) For that (and the quality) I need a 2nd box.
It costs £10/month I think which isnt bad, but the box is 100 quid. :?

You can really see the difference on Sky Digital, normal terrestial channels are anamorphic 16/9 :D

User avatar
grim_tales
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 21733
Joined: 25 Oct 2004, 18:34
Location: St. Albans, UK

Unread post by grim_tales » 25 Feb 2005, 17:08

It looks like I'll finally be getting TV upstairs soon, but just normal analogue with an ariel (and booster) at the moment, it'll have to do. :)
I think my mum said I can have Sky Digital for my birthday or something ;)
The analogue picture downstairs is truly shite, more so because of the weather. They all look pretty crap but C5 is unwatchable (but who wants that?)

What she said about being able to watch what I want on Sky isnt true (not now), I missed 24 (as she wanted to see ER) on Sunday, and have been enduring fooking tennis this week :roll: :evil: Missed Las Vegas et al on Thursday too. :(

User avatar
bradavon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 24418
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:30

Unread post by bradavon » 25 Feb 2005, 19:23

If you really want to be able to watch what you want in glorious RGB is £100 really that much? I don't think it is. It's only a one off cost. Think about it why go to the cost and hassle of getting a half way house (analogue or a cable up stairs) when you will probably get Sky Multiroom anyway?

£10 a month is nothing. If it interested me enough I'd get it. I'd probably want different channels though so I'd have to come to some agreement with my Dad and pay him the extra each month.

If you're getting Sky Multiroom then why are you bothering to run an RF cable? The quality won't be half as good and you'll never use it as you have Sky Multiroom.
grim_tales wrote:If I cant discuss this (as technichally it isnt really Multiroom as theres no extra box making it cheaper) I apologise.
Why wouldn't you be allowed to discuss it?
grim_tales wrote:1) I can still use my video and record off TV
Why wouldn't you be able to?

You can record off 1-5 and watch something else off Sky, and visa versa.
grim_tales wrote: 2) The image quality will be the same as downstairs.
It is appealing though, I think its better than getting an ariel/booster in to watch just normal terrestial. :)
In my experiance it won't be as good even if you're not using RGB downstairs. It will just be worse if you are. To get the same quality you need a box in your room.

It's still decent quality though and it's only crappy mono of course.
IronMonkey wrote:Add a "mouse" to the TV in your room, and hey presto, you can change the channels from your room with another Sky remote.
I take it you mean an I/R Sender? I have one and it works really well.
IronMonkey wrote:Oh, and don't forget to set the second output on the box to 16:9 if you have a widescreen TV!
Oh is that what the option is for in the menus I wondered that.
IronMonkey wrote:You have to press them in that sequence quite quickly. Only turn on the second RF power supply in there. Don't mess with anything else if you don't know what it is!
Mine was already turned on by default.
grim_tales wrote:We have Sky Digital (not NTL) installed now, and BT Broadband - yay! :D Digital looks miles better than the analogue signal (compare BBC1 on Digital with BBC1 analogue), it blows it away, the image is so much sharper and anamorphic 16/9 for a start :D
How does NTL Digital compare to Sky Digital compare?

User avatar
grim_tales
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 21733
Joined: 25 Oct 2004, 18:34
Location: St. Albans, UK

Unread post by grim_tales » 25 Feb 2005, 19:37

I'm not sure, I think when when we had NTL Digital it was through the EX2 socket, and it was still better than analogue but RGB is better than that :D

I agree BTW I think £100 is fine, I'm sure I can afford £10/mo. :) I may still get Multiroom, have to talk about it with my family :)
Mum just called the ariel guy in to do my room (he's coming next week). Better than nothing, maybe I can still have both things. :)
Yeah I know you can watch 1-5 and record of Sky and Vice Versa but you cant watch off Sky and record off Sky.

User avatar
bradavon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 24418
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:30

Unread post by bradavon » 25 Feb 2005, 19:55

grim_tales wrote:I'm not sure, I think when when we had NTL Digital it was through the EX2 socket, and it was still better than analogue but RGB is better than that :D
Thanks but that doesn't answer my question. I was asking if NTL is better quality than sky irrelevnt of how you view it (RGB or non-RGB).

You say RGB is better than that but what do you mean? As RGB is just a transfer method it's not connected to what you're watching such as Sky or NTL.
grim_tales wrote:Mum just called the ariel guy in to do my room (he's coming next week). Better than nothing, maybe I can still have both things. :). Yeah I know you can watch 1-5 and record of Sky and Vice Versa but you cant watch off Sky and record off Sky.
Personally I'd cancel it as it sounds like you want Sky Multiroom really so this is a waste of money.

Of course you can but just the same channel.

User avatar
grim_tales
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 21733
Joined: 25 Oct 2004, 18:34
Location: St. Albans, UK

Unread post by grim_tales » 25 Feb 2005, 20:13

In terms of the picture quality, Sky Digital/BTL Digital are about the same. Sky has more choice of channels which blow NTL out of the water (we're using the Family Pack - £19.50/mo and get almost everything). Sky Multiroom is cheaper.

Yeah Multiroom is better IMO, that was I thought initially, maybe I wont have to pay for the ariel tho and get Multiroom later ;) Anything would be better than what I have at the moment (no TV at all).

Post Reply