Fuck you, Infinity Ward

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Fuck you, Infinity Ward

Unread post by EvaUnit02 » 18 Oct 2009, 03:21

Modern Warfare 2 on PC will have no dedicated servers, and P2P hosting + matchmaking only - HELLO LAG CITY.
No dedicated servers also means no server-side mods, so that means that kills off the entire competitive scene and tournament play, which rely upon pro-mods to disable perks like Martyrdom and Last Stand.

I'll be pirating this game for the Single Player. Way to screw over the audience that built you. Next year if Treyarch treats us properly, I'll buy their CoD game. Fuck you Bobby Kotick and Infinity Ward, go rape your anuses with Guitar Hero controllers.

Petition for Dedicated Servers

Petition thread on the official forum

Steam Boycott "We Want Dedicated Servers" Group
source

Fourzerotwo was on our BASH webcast this morning and he had a few surprises for the PC community.

Here are the snippets:

* * We're doing a lot on the backend to make the game accessible for everyone.
* There is no delay for the PC version of MW2
* There's prestige mode
* Jason West at the MP event, said that he was dead on, on the matchmaking servers. We've been building a system on the backend called IW.NET.
* You are completely reliant on IW.NET. There are no server lists. There are no dedicated servers.
* You have private matches where you can customize the game
* You cannot put MW2 on a dedicated server.
* This is the first time we've ever done something like this and the team has huge plans for what IW.NET develops into.
* Customizing your game...you have quite a few options in a private match
* You're getting same game (as in Console), plus matchmaking and private match.
* Server admin point-of view, NO DEDICATED SERVERS


I've summarized some of my own thoughts from the cast here:

General

* * IW partnering through Steam is what you will see in the future. Matchmaking is not through Steam, but IW.NET is run in conjunction with Steam.
* GSP's will no longer be renting out servers.
* No PunkBuster. VAC will be used as an anti cheat.
* Retail distribution: Pre-orders will get a disk. Or you could order from Steam.
* DLC may now need to be paid for - not confirmed.
* Piracy was only a small reason for going to IW.NET - not the whole reason.


Clans:

* * No more clan servers. Private matches, replace clan servers.
* Listen servers will connect to each other.
* IW.NET/Steam will replace the community server admin


Competitive Gaming

* * Competitive gaming has changed forever.
* It might be possible in the future for IW engineers to load a "competitive" setting on IW.NET, but it is far from a guarantee. It might also never happen.


Modding

* * Modding the game is now very much in question. Fourzerotwo had no info on modding. However, it appears that there will be no mods or maps for MW2.
* Modding in SpecOps? Unknown.


Today our game has changed for ever.

I'll leave this post with Josh Peckler's comments from planetmedalofhonor.com:

* The server community is what's made us. It's what defined us. IW.NET is getting the PC community to turn into consoles. You're trying to re-write our history.

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IronMonkey
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Re: Fuck you, Infinity Ward

Unread post by IronMonkey » 18 Oct 2009, 11:02

Buy the 360 version?
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Re: Fuck you, Infinity Ward

Unread post by romerojpg » 18 Oct 2009, 15:14

360 = Shit controller.

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Re: Fuck you, Infinity Ward

Unread post by IronMonkey » 18 Oct 2009, 15:29

360 = best controller on the market.
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Re: Fuck you, Infinity Ward

Unread post by EvaUnit02 » 18 Oct 2009, 15:41

IronMonkey wrote:Buy the 360 version?
Yeah, nah. The console versions use P2P hosting and matching too, so it's still be lag city. There's no local game filtering in the console versions, so I'll be stuck playing laggy as fuck 300 ping games with Yanks, rather than letting us search exclusively for Aus/NZ hosted games.

The native resolution will be around 1024x600 like CoD4 and WaW, rather than the standard 1280x720p used for most current gen console games. They had to make sacrifices to the get the game running at a constant 60fps on the dated hardware. So yeah, I'll find it ugly as sin.

Oh and naturally the gamepad controls are sluggish and lacking greatly in aiming precision. Playing a FPS under these conditions can greatly dampen my enjoyment of the game.
Last edited by EvaUnit02 on 19 Oct 2009, 06:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Fuck you, Infinity Ward

Unread post by romerojpg » 18 Oct 2009, 17:33

EvaUnit02 wrote: Oh and naturally the gamepad controls are sluggish and lacking greatly in aiming precision. Playing a FPS under these conditions can greatly dampen my enjoyment of the game.
That is being kind, it makes them shit.

Looks far less and plays shit on consoles, instant fail all round.

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Re: Fuck you, Infinity Ward

Unread post by Lourdes » 21 Oct 2009, 18:57

I like the idea of a good matchmaking system but only IN ADDITION to dedicated servers. I wasn't going to buy the game anyway, I only really play the SP and it lasts far too little time.

PC gaming is so poor now, it's all cross-platform and it shows.

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Re: Fuck you, Infinity Ward

Unread post by thelostdragon » 24 Oct 2009, 09:17

romerojpg wrote:
EvaUnit02 wrote: Oh and naturally the gamepad controls are sluggish and lacking greatly in aiming precision. Playing a FPS under these conditions can greatly dampen my enjoyment of the game.
That is being kind, it makes them shit.

Looks far less and plays shit on consoles, instant fail all round.
A mousepad might be an advantage over a PS3 or 360 control pad when it comes to first person shooters. However, I have made far better experiences with the accuracy of Nintendo Wii and it is becoming even more accurate with Wii Motion Plus now. Games like the "Metroid"-series or "The Conduit" play very well with the Wiimote and so so in online mode as well.

And regarding your statement that it looks far less, you might be right. I don't know as I haven't seen a direct comparison. However, I could imagine that you need trice the money to keep playing the latest games on a home PC due to all the hardware updates. This of course is redundant with consoles. And from my experience, I even think that many console games look far better than their respective PC versions and all that without any framedrops at a constant rate of 60 fps. On PCs it yet again depends on your hardware.

They are all great to have. If I had the money I'd keep upgrading my PC as well. However, for gamng I like to spend money on a console every few years and just buy games and play them right away, without having to install them and without having to look for patches and all that stuff. I used to do that when I had more time on my hands, but these days I just wanna pop in a game and just play.

My PC is for work and internet. My consoles are for gaming. How about you guys?
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Re: Fuck you, Infinity Ward

Unread post by Yi-Long » 24 Oct 2009, 11:56

First of all, it depends on the games: certain games I just want to play sitting on the couch or from my bed, and just really get lost in them... like a Zelda game, or whatever. Others, obviously, are more suited to play on the PC, like Sim City 4.

However, with PC's becoming cheaper and cheaper, and more and more people choosing to connect their PC to their big-ass widescreen plasma/LCD, I think more and more people will choose to play PC games, with a controllers, on their PC (connected to the TV). Most PC games can be played with the controller now, thus having the same controls as the console-version, but looking much better.

So when I have a dedicated good PC attached to my TV, I can imagine using that as my gaming platform, and enjoying games like Batman AA and Mirror's Edge and SF4 and FallOut 3, all with improved graphics, and using the controller, playing them from my bed/couch.
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Re: Fuck you, Infinity Ward

Unread post by EvaUnit02 » 24 Oct 2009, 14:10

The last couple posts are entirely off-topic, but I'll indulge you guys in a moment. The removal of dedicated servers and replacing it with P2P hosting is a HUGE deal. They're essentially destroying entire communities consisting of thousands of people. The competitive scene that past products in the CoD franchise has automatically been killed off, because having your own server is a massive part of PC gaming and clan culture. A potential player could just go onto a server and get to know the regular players of that server, the atmosphere instilled, etc.

Dedicated servers are used by clans for many reasons as:-
  • Most importantly - A social gathering point.
  • Setting up an environment with highly controlled conditions/preferences - that can used for training, recruiting, amongst many other things.
  • With IWnet and its P2P hosting, Infinity Ward have taken control away from the user.
  • No modding, they charge for DLC (including map packs) and there's no competition from the user.
  • They can shut off the multiplayer functionality of the game altogether whenever they please. Eg This recently happened with Halo 2 for Xbox.
Modding increases the longevity of a product. you often get lots of people who buy games specifically to play the mods available for it, having no intention of touching the vanilla product ever. Eg Counter-Strike for Half-Life 1, Bethesda RPGs (Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3).

The performance and reliability difference between dedi and P2P is huge. There's no comparison. If a large group of people who're used to one thing one that's very good, you aren't going to take kindly with it being replaced with a wholly inferior solution.
thelostdragon wrote:However, I have made far better experiences with the accuracy of Nintendo Wii and it is becoming even more accurate with Wii Motion Plus now.
You don't understand how the Wii works at all. The motion sensoring has absolutely nothing to do with camera, which is the important part when it comes to aiming. The wii camera had always had 1:1 accuracy, it's always been very good. In regards to shooting, there's absolutely no benefit gained with the MotionPlus attachment.
A mousepad might be an advantage over a PS3 or 360 control pad when it comes to first person shooters.Games like the "Metroid"-series or "The Conduit" play very well with the Wiimote and so so in online mode as well.
Yeah no. Wiimote ain't got shit on mouse for accuracy and speed.

The pointer only tracks when it's aimed directly at the screen. Given the nature of FPSes (and over-the-shoulder fixed perspective 3PS), it's easy accidently to track off the screen. No such limitation exists with mouse movement. Both the Metroid Prime 3 and The Conduit are victim of this limitation.

Moving just your palm is a lot faster than having to use your arm up to the elbow. If you're having to drag your mouse right across a surface in long strokes then you're using cheap low DPI hardware. Also learn how to properly overclock USB polling rates.

The fact of the matter is, traditional games that are aimed at the "core gaming audience" have been failures on the Wii. The likes of MadWorld, House of the Dead: Overkill and The Conduit have sold very poorly on the platform. Why do you think very few traditional genre games are produced for the Wii? It has little to do with them not being adaptable for the new control scheme (a good developer can solve this problem quickly and easily), the fact is the audience for those products is largely elsewhere.

Speaking of The Conduit, it's a piss poor game, bettered by several FPSes, that are several years old, on other platforms.
And regarding your statement that it looks far less, you might be right. I don't know as I haven't seen a direct comparison. However, I could imagine that you need trice the money to keep playing the latest games on a home PC due to all the hardware updates.
The costs amounts for console gradually amount, games usually are much more expensive due to publishers having licensing fees to the platform hardware manufacturers. Xbox Live costs like ~$50-60 USD per year, the service of PSN isn't as good (they've been slowly catching up though). You don't have a HDTV you have to invest in one of those. If you want to get the most of the online experience with console games, you have to pay for map packs - you're cut off from a significant chunk of the online playerbase otherwise.

First off, arguments along the lines of "having to update the hardware every 6 months" are incredibly ignorant. Do your research properly and you can easily have a build that will last you at least 2.5 years. Computer parts are cheaper than they've ever been and it's easy to build a PC with a high performance to cost ratio on a budget. RAM is really cheap (the speed doesn't really matter much either) and CPUs generally have long life spans.

Also the eras of constant PC game graphics engine arms races are pretty much over. Publishers know that consoles are the big earners, so these days most blockbuster games are multi-platform and the lowest common denominator hardware is usually the base platform.
They are all great to have. If I had the money I'd keep upgrading my PC as well. However, for gamng I like to spend money on a console every few years and just buy games and play them right away, without having to install them and without having to look for patches and all that stuff.
Oh wow, you're behind the times. Console games these days actively receive patches, if you have to patch your games to the latest versions otherwise you can't play online. A lot of PS3 games require Hard Drive installation, to compensate for the Blu-ray read times being quite slow compared to those of DVD.
I used to do that when I had more time on my hands, but these days I just wanna pop in a game and just play.
This argument is highly outdated. The PC environment has changed a lot over the years. With Steam being mandatory in a lot of today's popular games, auto-patching is fast becoming the standard. Hardware is far more standardised now that it used to be. The point is the experience of getting up and running has become much quicker and far less pain free on PC than it used to be. Whereas as I demonstrated, things have become a lot more complicated for consoles.
This of course is redundant with consoles. And from my experience, I even think that many console games look far better than their respective PC versions and all that without any framedrops at a constant rate of 60 fps. On PCs it yet again depends on your hardware.
Not many games actually run at a constant 60fps, 30fps is far more common. Due to the dated hardware (2005) developers have to make sacrifices graphically to achieve a constant 60fps. With mass market consumer generally being incredibly fickle individuals, who like their eye candy, developers more often than not target 30fps in order for higher graphical quality.

Oh yeah and your opinion is largely inaccurate. A properly optimised PC game will run very well, whilst looking a lot better on modest budgeted, no longer cutting edge PC hardware. Case in point Call of Duty 4, CoD: World at War.

You're not restricted to having to use mouse and keyboard at all. It's an open platform, you can use practically any accessory to control as you please. Most AAA released since 2007 have full blown native support for the 360 controller out of the box, rumble and all. When a 360 pad is detected by a game, they're often to switch all of the on-screen prompts for keys to the equivalent 360 buttons.

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Re: Fuck you, Infinity Ward

Unread post by thelostdragon » 24 Oct 2009, 16:06

EvaUnit02 wrote:
thelostdragon wrote:However, I have made far better experiences with the accuracy of Nintendo Wii and it is becoming even more accurate with Wii Motion Plus now.
You don't understand how the Wii works at all. The motion sensoring has absolutely nothing to do with camera, which is the important part when it comes to aiming. The wii camera had always had 1:1 accuracy, it's always been very good. In regards to shooting, there's absolutely no benefit gained with the MotionPlus attachment.
Thanks for clearing that up. It's still good to play games with. You should apply for a job in the tech department of Nintendo. :thumbs:
A mousepad might be an advantage over a PS3 or 360 control pad when it comes to first person shooters.Games like the "Metroid"-series or "The Conduit" play very well with the Wiimote and so so in online mode as well.
Yeah no. Wiimote ain't got shit on mouse for accuracy and speed.
It ain't?
The pointer only tracks when it's aimed directly at the screen. Given the nature of FPSes (and over-the-shoulder fixed perspective 3PS), it's easy accidently to track off the screen. No such limitation exists with mouse movement. Both the Metroid Prime 3 and The Conduit are victim of this limitation.

Moving just your palm is a lot faster than having to use your arm up to the elbow.
Hm, interesting facts. I guess you'll just have to live with the fact that the Wiimote just works better FOR ME.
If you're having to drag your mouse right across a surface in long strokes then you're using cheap low DPI hardware. Also learn how to properly overclock USB polling rates.
See here is the thing. I just wanna play a game. I don't want to find out what kind of mouse I have and what settings I have. Even people who are no tech freaks have the right to be entertained by videogames if they pay money for them. If I were a tech freak, I'm sure I would have a lot more fun playing games, because then I'd know all the stuff you do. However, being the person I am I have way more fun with console games.
The fact of the matter is, traditional games that are aimed at the "core gaming audience" have been failures on the Wii. The likes of MadWorld, House of the Dead: Overkill and The Conduit have sold very poorly on the platform. Why do you think very few traditional genre games are produced for the Wii? It has little to do with them not being adaptable for the new control scheme (a good developer can solve this problem quickly and easily), the fact is the audience for those products is largely elsewhere.
I agree. I bought the Nintendo Wii for its exclusive titles, though, with which I have a lot of fun as well. The games for casual-gamers have long been bugging the hell out of me, but the fact that there are also games for the core gamers was reason enough for me to buy the system. Even though they are only few core games we are talking about here, I happen to enjoy them a lot.

I am also a big fan of the Virtual Console idea. Some people say it is a rip-off or a cheap replacement for the fact that the Wii lacks games for the core gamers. I say it is a nice way of enjoying games for ALL Nintendo systems (and even more) for a cheap price.
Speaking of The Conduit, it's a piss poor game, bettered by several FPSes, that are several years old, on other platforms.
And that's how opinions differ.
And regarding your statement that it looks far less, you might be right. I don't know as I haven't seen a direct comparison. However, I could imagine that you need trice the money to keep playing the latest games on a home PC due to all the hardware updates.
The costs amounts for console gradually amount, games usually are much more expensive due to publishers having licensing fees to the platform hardware manufacturers. Xbox Live costs like ~$50-60 USD per year, the service of PSN isn't as good (they've been slowly catching up though). You don't have a HDTV you have to invest in one of those. If you want to get the most of the online experience with console games, you have to pay for map packs - you're cut off from a significant chunk of the online playerbase otherwise.
I paid 30 Euros for my 12 months membership. It is a price I am willing to pay. Others pay money for smokes, I play online. The argument about "having to buy HDTV if you don't have one" is only applicable if you want/need one. I am currently playing on my old 4:3 TV, lol. The graphics are the same. It looks way sharper on a friend's HDTV of course, but sooner or later we are all gonna end up with an HDTV anyway. 4:3 TVs (or TVs that are non-HD) become fewer and fewer in shops in Germany. I don't know about elsewhere, but I can't even remember the last time I saw a 4:3 or non-HDTV in a shop in Germany.
So "having to buy" an HDTV is true in a way that we'll all have one sooner or later, but not that you need it in order to play Xbox360.
First off, arguments along the lines of "having to update the hardware every 6 months" are incredibly ignorant.
I didn't say 6 months. I said, "I could imagine that you need trice the money to keep playing the latest games on a home PC due to all the hardware updates.
Do your research properly and you can easily have a build that will last you at least 2.5 years. Computer parts are cheaper than they've ever been and it's easy to build a PC with a high performance to cost ratio on a budget. RAM is really cheap (the speed doesn't really matter much either) and CPUs generally have long life spans.
You are probably right. That's why in my previous post I wrote "I COULD IMAGINE", because my knowledge about that is from a time when it was the way I described: Expensive.
But anyway, I'd still have to install the games which to me is a pain in the ass. I wanna play and not go through some slow installation process.
Also the eras of constant PC game graphics engine arms races are pretty much over. Publishers know that consoles are the big earners, so these days most blockbuster games are multi-platform and the lowest common denominator hardware is usually the base platform.
Word! The main thing about video games for me is and will always be that I am entertained. Not more or less.
Oh wow, you're behind the times. Console games these days actively receive patches, if you have to patch your games to the latest versions otherwise you can't play online.
Ha ha, you are right. Each time I buy a game that is older than 3 months I get the message that an update for the game is available. The difference is that it's just one button away from being installed and usually takes no more than 5 seconds until I can play the game I bought.
I used to do that when I had more time on my hands, but these days I just wanna pop in a game and just play.
This argument is highly outdated. The PC environment has changed a lot over the years. With Steam being mandatory in a lot of today's popular games, auto-patching is fast becoming the standard. Hardware is far more standardised now that it used to be. The point is the experience of getting up and running has become much quicker and far less pain free on PC than it used to be.
I see. Well, it's good for PC gamers then. Great! My question here though: Is getting a game up and running on PC these days as fast or maybe even faster than on a console? If so, then that's great!
Whereas as I demonstrated, things have become a lot more complicated for consoles.
Demonstrated how? By claiming you have to buy an HDTV? By explaining how the WiiMote works techincally?
Not many games actually run at a constant 60fps, 30fps is far more common. Due to the dated hardware (2005) developers have to make sacrifices graphically to achieve a constant 60fps. With mass market consumer generally being incredibly fickle individuals, who like their eye candy, developers more often than not target 30fps in order for higher graphical quality.
Personally, I never cared what a game looks like as long as it if fun to play. I don't care about the reasons of why it is entertaining. If it is, I'll take it.
Oh yeah and your opinion is largely inaccurate. A properly optimised PC game will run very well, whilst looking a lot better on modest budgeted, no longer cutting edge PC hardware. Case in point Call of Duty 4, CoD: World at War.
Yeah, I checked some comparisons right after my post, as I already wrote that I hadn't seen any comparisons. "Batman: Arkham Asylum" looks awesome on PC.
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Re: Fuck you, Infinity Ward

Unread post by thelostdragon » 24 Oct 2009, 16:28

On second thought, there are actually quite a few very good games for the core gaming audience on Nintendo Wii.

Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
Super Mario Galaxy
Metroid Prime Trilogy
Super Smash Brothers Brawl
Zack & Wiki
Resident Evil 4
Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles
The Conduit
Super Papaer Mario
MadWorld
Okami
No More Heroes
Mario Kart Wii
Dead Space Extraction
Mega Man 9
Scarface
House of the Dead Overkill
Red Steel (release-title, controls aren't as accurate as they will most probably be in "Red Steel 2")
Tenchu

And some very cool stuff is on the way like "The Grinder" or "Red Steel 2". Especially the new "Zelda" which Ninatendo announced. The thing about Nintendo is that they only develope and produce a few games a year, but when they do so, you know you are getting quality. I bought all Mario, Zelda and Donkey Kong games without reading any reviews before as I knew they were going to be great. I can't really say the same about any other developing studio. Not even about the "Metal Gear Solid"-series although it is my favourite game franchise.
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