Should I change browser?

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Markgway
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Should I change browser?

Unread post by Markgway » 11 Mar 2010, 23:55

When I logged on just now I found on my desktop a Microsoft update called Browser Choice which asked me to select my browser.

The options were as follows:

1. Safaari 4 (Apple) - Obviously this is for a Mac
2. Internet Explorer 8 - Which is what I have now
3. Opera 10.50
4. Firefox 3.6
5. Google Chrome

Should I change or just delete the program?

Thx.
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Re: Should I change browser?

Unread post by bradavon » 12 Mar 2010, 00:16

Dude, you use Internet Explorer! Yes you want to switch, it's shit.

Switch to either Google Chrome or Firefox. Opera is also very good but for the reasons I mention in the link below, stick with one of these two. As you're not technical, I'd say Chrome. Chrome also imports your history, bookmarks, cookies, passwords etc... from Firefox or IE. Making it very seamless. Opera doesn't import anything and Firefox "most" of it.

IE is so awful. Clunky, slow and frankly rubbish. I cannot believe anyone would be content using it. It's hideous. You'll be amazed by how much better Chrome is (super fast). Why MS can make Windows 7, Office 2007, Windows Live so good and get IE so wrong I don't know. Firefox is better for techies but for non-techies, stick with Chrome. "Out of the box" Chrome has better features. Did I say how insanely fast Chrome was? At loading and page loading.

Firefox is amazing if you like to configure/tinker, which is why it will always be my browser of choice. It's load time is annoying though.

You got the popup btw as your default browser is set to IE. Those who've already looked elsewhere won't see it. Look here for my opinion on each browser:

http://www.bulletsnbabesdvd.com/forums/ ... 7&start=40

Read the last posts from me. Safari btw is for Windows or MAC but it's rubbish on Windows. Firefox, Chrome or Opera are frankly a billion times better than IE or Safari (on Windows). It's night and day!

If you decide to go with Chrome install this too: https://chrome.google.com/extensions/de ... kkbiglidom
And for Firefox: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1865

Adblocking is essential and it amazes me, it doesn't come as standard. The web is full of annoying adverts, you simply don't need to see (eBay and many forums are full of them). Only Chrome and Firefox support "Extensions", a big reason to stick with these two browsers.

p.s - If you were to scroll to the right you'd see a further 7 browsers. The list has 12 browsers in all but ignore the other 7, no one uses them.

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Re: Should I change browser?

Unread post by Yi-Long » 12 Mar 2010, 00:42

Just get Avant browser. It's very user-friendly. You don't have to download a shitload of plug-ins (none), it has everything you want/need, and you can adjust it in pretty much any way you want.

http://www.avantbrowser.com/
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Markgway
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Re: Should I change browser?

Unread post by Markgway » 12 Mar 2010, 02:54

Brad - I'm not a tech geek as you know so your recommendation for Chrome is noted. Improved page loading speed would be a real bonus. I'm glad that my Favourites tab would be carried over to Chrome. I have 29 pages saved and it would be a little time consuming to do them all again. Ads are also a pain - I don't have an indie ad-blocker just what comes with IE. Does Chrome's ad-blocker block anything I'd like to see or is it all guff? I'm not gonna miss anything useful am I? Appreciate your opinions... will be interesting to see if anyone disagrees with you. ;)

Yi - Never heard of Avant. It wasn't on the recommend(?) list.

I've no idea why Windows have prompted me to select/change my bowser. But I figured I should at least investigate the matter.
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Re: Should I change browser?

Unread post by bradavon » 12 Mar 2010, 11:07

Yi-Long wrote:Just get Avant browser. It's very user-friendly. You don't have to download a shitload of plug-ins (none), it has everything you want/need, and you can adjust it in pretty much any way you want.
No. It's not wildly supported and not wildly used. Fair enough you like it but you really should be using one of the big 5 (as mentioned above).

IE has about 60% of the market (down from about 85%), Firefox about 25% of the market. The rest are all 10% or lower but Chrome is the only browser to be growing in popularity (out of the big 5, the rest who cares?). As Chrome gets more popular it's unlikely Firefox will grow more and IE will hopefully get less popular.
Markgway wrote:Yi - Never heard of Avant. It wasn't on the recommend(?) list.
No one else has either :D. It is if you scroll right. It sits on top of IE, so you may as well really just use that.
Markgway wrote:Ads are also a pain - I don't have an indie ad-blocker just what comes with IE.
Only Opera has built in Adblocking (which isn't very good). There are add-ons for IE to give Adblocking but as IE is so rubbish I don't bother.
Markgway wrote:Does Chrome's ad-blocker block anything I'd like to see or is it all guff?
Not in my experience. I've less experience with Chrome's but Firefox has not once got it wrong for me, just right, right, right. They both use the same "Adblocking list", so I cannot see it being much different.

Agreed Adverts are an awful thing, some sites are full of them.
Markgway wrote:I'm not gonna miss anything useful am I? Appreciate your opinions... will be interesting to see if anyone disagrees with you. ;)
IE is intrinsic to Windows, you cannot remove it. Meaning it is still very much installed. You can always go back but no you won't miss much. A web browser is a web browser at the end of the day. They all have an address bar, bookmarks, history etc...

Another three nice things in Chrome:

1. Incognito mode: This is in all modern browsers, it's call "In-Private Browsing" on IE. When use click it, it open a new browser session and nothing is saved when you close the window: cookies, history etc... It's also called "Porn Mode" :D.
2. You can type directly into the address bar for Google Searches.
3. There is a clever 6 tile view that displays a thumbnail of the last 6 websites you visited. It's the default "home page". It's really useful. You can pink websites to it, if you wish them to stay there.

I seriously doubt you'll want to go back.
Markgway wrote:I've no idea why Windows have prompted me to select/change my bowser. But I figured I should at least investigate the matter.
It's due to a recent EU ruling that MS have too much power to leverage people to use "their browser". Windows 7 was going to ship without IE period but instead this forced browser ballot screen has been used instead. Windows XP, Windows Vista and Windows 7 users will all be seeing. If: A: They have Windows Update set to Automatic and B: IE is their default browser.

Eva, Grim and I think Romero use Firefox btw and Gasterpod Chrome.
Last edited by bradavon on 12 Mar 2010, 11:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Should I change browser?

Unread post by Shingster » 12 Mar 2010, 11:24

This thread prompted me to finally give Google chrome and Avant a go and I have to say they're both pretty shit. Chrome = no search box = instant fail, while Avant has the search box but it doesn't seem customisable like in firefox.

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Re: Should I change browser?

Unread post by bradavon » 12 Mar 2010, 11:28

Shingster wrote:Chrome = no search box = instant fail
It doesn't because you search directly from within the Address Bar. It learns other sites too. Ignorance = Instant Fail ;). Avant is rubbish (in comparison), it only has one user = Yi-long :D.

I take it you use Firefox?
Last edited by bradavon on 12 Mar 2010, 13:06, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Should I change browser?

Unread post by Yi-Long » 12 Mar 2010, 11:28

Markgway wrote:Yi - Never heard of Avant. It wasn't on the recommend(?) list.
That's why I'm recommending it to you. It's a great browser, and has everything you need right out of the box. Just check out the website or try it for a week orso, see if you like it. You can always remove it again if you hate it, but I doubt you'll remove it.
bradavon wrote:
Yi-Long wrote:Just get Avant browser. It's very user-friendly. You don't have to download a shitload of plug-ins (none), it has everything you want/need, and you can adjust it in pretty much any way you want.
No. It's not wildly supported and not wildly used. Fair enough you like it but you really should be using one of the big 5 (as mentioned above).

IE has about 60% of the market (down from about 85%), Firefox about 25% of the market. The rest are all 10% or lower but Chrome is the only browser to be growing in popularity (out of the big 5, the rest who cares?). As Chrome gets more popular it's unlikely Firefox will grow more and IE will hopefully get less popular.
Just because Avant isn't good at marketing, doesn't mean it isn't a good browser. So what if it isn't one of the big 5?It's a great browser, and typically, reviews are extremely positive.
Markgway wrote:Yi - Never heard of Avant. It wasn't on the recommend(?) list.
No one else has either :D. It is if you scroll right. It sits on top of IE, so you may as well really just use that.
Avant has ALOT more stuff in it, than IE. It's very comfortable, cause you just have to download Avant, and not bother with downloading extra plug-ins and stuff.

Markgway wrote:Ads are also a pain - I don't have an indie ad-blocker just what comes with IE.
Only Opera has built in Adblocking (which isn't very good). There are add-ons for IE to give Adblocking but as IE is so rubbish I don't bother.
Avant Browser also has built in AdBlocking. No need to download extra add-ons. Comes in the box.
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Re: Should I change browser?

Unread post by Yi-Long » 12 Mar 2010, 11:29

Shingster wrote:This thread prompted me to finally give Google chrome and Avant a go and I have to say they're both pretty shit. Chrome = no search box = instant fail, while Avant has the search box but it doesn't seem customisable like in firefox.
The search-box in Avant IS customisable. Just go into your avant options.
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Re: Should I change browser?

Unread post by bradavon » 12 Mar 2010, 11:36

Yi-Long wrote:That's why I'm recommending it to you. It's a great browser, and has everything you need right out of the box.
Have you tried any of the big 5 above? Except IE obviously.
Yi-Long wrote:Just because Avant isn't good at marketing, doesn't mean it isn't a good browser. So what if it isn't one of the big 5?It's a great browser, and typically, reviews are extremely positive.
Like I said. A web browser lives or dies on being supported. It's not a word processor. The bigger ones will simply always work better with websites because others will code for them.
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Re: Should I change browser?

Unread post by bradavon » 12 Mar 2010, 11:37

Yi-Long wrote:Avant has ALOT more stuff in it, than IE. It's very comfortable, cause you just have to download Avant, and not bother with downloading extra plug-ins and stuff.
IE is rubbish. I'm not recommending that. You don't have to install add-ons in Chrome, Firefox or Opera. I only recommended installing an Adblocker.
Yi-Long wrote:Avant Browser also has built in AdBlocking. No need to download extra add-ons. Comes in the box.
That's one plus, still not enough to warrant using it IMO. It takes seconds to install the add-on. Firefox (Chrome's is growing) has zillions of add-ons, that make it so much more useful. With Avant (and the rest) you're stuck with what "they" think you'll like.
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Re: Should I change browser?

Unread post by Shingster » 12 Mar 2010, 12:02

bradavon wrote:
Shingster wrote:Chrome = no search box = instant fail
It doesn't because you search directly from within the Address Bar. It learns other sites too. Ignorance = Instant Fail ;).
OK, I want to search Jdorama.com for Trick Season 2, how do I do that in Google Chrome without going to google.com first?

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Re: Should I change browser?

Unread post by Yi-Long » 12 Mar 2010, 12:32

bradavon wrote:
Yi-Long wrote:That's why I'm recommending it to you. It's a great browser, and has everything you need right out of the box.
Have you tried any of the big 5 above? Except IE obviously.
yeah, all 5 of them. Safari and Opera were on the Macs at school and I think also at my internship. Firefox I tried at home, and it's still on my girlfriend's laptop (don't like it), and IE obviously, but don't like it either.
Yi-Long wrote:Just because Avant isn't good at marketing, doesn't mean it isn't a good browser. So what if it isn't one of the big 5?It's a great browser, and typically, reviews are extremely positive.
Like I said. A web browser lives or dies on being supported. It's not a word processor. The bigger ones will simply always work better with websites because others will code for them.
Haven't ran into problems yet.
Yi-Long wrote:Avant has ALOT more stuff in it, than IE. It's very comfortable, cause you just have to download Avant, and not bother with downloading extra plug-ins and stuff.
IE is rubbish. I'm not recommending that. You don't have to install add-ons in Chrome, Firefox or Opera. I only recommended installing an Adblocker.
I don't give a shit about IE and I don't care if Avant is technically a 'shell' or not. It works perfectly for me, it has everything I need or could ask for, including adblocker, pop-up blocker, and all other kinds of blockers. Also has autofill, so logging into websites is easy and comfortable. You can move everything around. You can choose between 'compact' style, or normal style (I always turn 'compact style' off, as it's horrible IMHO), etc etc.
Yi-Long wrote:Avant Browser also has built in AdBlocking. No need to download extra add-ons. Comes in the box.
That's one plus, still not enough to warrant using it IMO. It takes seconds to install the add-on. Firefox (Chrome's is growing) has zillions of add-ons, that make it so much more useful. With Avant (and the rest) you're stuck with what "they" think you'll like.
[/quote]

Like I said, I don't want to download a bunch of plug-ins and make them work, when I have to re-install my browser. I just want top download it, quickly adjust it the way I like it, and just use it. With Avant, you get that.

It's just a great browser which has everything you need.
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Re: Should I change browser?

Unread post by bradavon » 12 Mar 2010, 12:48

I used to think Opera was rubbish but it's come on a long way over the past few years. Opera 10 is excellent but doesn't support Extensions. If it did, I'd say it's better than Chrome for non-techies, it has lots more features. Pity as it's built-in Ablocking is rubbish. For what it's worth Opera 10 is better than Chrome 3, which is a moot point now Chrome 4 is out.
Like I said, I don't want to download a bunch of plug-ins and make them work, when I have to re-install my browser. I just want top download it, quickly adjust it the way I like it, and just use it. With Avant, you get that.
As I said, that's equally Chrome, Firefox and Opera too :). Adblocking aside, assuming Avant's is any good.

I see where you're coming from but some of the Extensions Firefox has (and growing in Chrome) can be incredibly useful. Without using them yourself, it's difficult for me to convince someone of this. Besides Extensions are optional, if you find the concept unnecessary don't install any.
Yi-Long wrote:It's just a great browser which has everything you need.
As you've never given Extensions ago, that is something you cannot really say :).
Shingster wrote:OK, I want to search Jdorama.com for Trick Season 2, how do I do that in Google Chrome without going to google.com first?
Is there a Firefox search engine for this site? For Chrome:

1. Go Trick http://www.jdorama.com
2. Search for something. This will add it's search engine into Chrome. As far I'm aware it works with any "search engine". Chrome automatically adds in the ability to search on any site, automatically after searching once
3. Now you can type, into the address bar Jdorama.com XXX. Where XXX is what you want to search for

Obviously Jdorama.com is a lot to type, so go into Chrome options and change the keyword to say just J:

1. Click the Spanner
2. Click Options
3. Basics tab
4. Manage under "Default Search"
5. Locate Jdorama.com and change it's keyword

This may sound technical but the first part is automatic and it's no more technical than adding in a Firefox search engine. This is also quicker, in Firefox you have to change the search engine using the mouse but in Chrome you you just change the keyword (say J for Jdorama.com or D for DVD Times).

As it happens I prefer Firefox too but Chrome is faster and a solid browser in it's own right.
Last edited by bradavon on 12 Mar 2010, 13:23, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Should I change browser?

Unread post by Yi-Long » 12 Mar 2010, 12:53

bradavon wrote:I used to think Opera was rubbish but it's come on a long way over the past few years. Opera 10 is excellent but doesn't support Extensions. If it did, I'd say it's better than Chrome for non-techies, it has lots more features. Pity as it's built-in Ablocking is rubbish. For what it's worth Opera 10 is better than Chrome 3, which is a moot point now Chrome 4 is out.
Like I said, I don't want to download a bunch of plug-ins and make them work, when I have to re-install my browser. I just want top download it, quickly adjust it the way I like it, and just use it. With Avant, you get that.
As I said, that's equally Chrome, Firefox and Opera too :). Adblocking aside, assuming Avant's is any good.

I see where you're coming from but some of the Extensions Firefox has (and growing in Chrome) can be incredibly useful. Without using them yourself, it's difficult for me to convince someone of this. Besides Extensions are optional, if you find the concept unnecessary don't install any.
Yi-Long wrote:It's just a great browser which has everything you need.
As you've never given Extensions ago, that is something you cannot really say :).
I just said that I don't want to download a browser AND download extra extensions. Which is why I have Avant, which has everything I need.

Chrome, without extensions, is pretty damn barebones, so why use that if you can have Avant Browser?
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Re: Should I change browser?

Unread post by bradavon » 12 Mar 2010, 13:04

Yi-Long wrote:I just said that I don't want to download a browser AND download extra extensions.
Then you cannot say "everything you need". To someone else that could be IE but we both know that is incorrect. It has an address bar, history, bookmarks, tab browsing. Just like any other browser.
Yi-Long wrote:Chrome, without extensions, is pretty damn barebones
Not so. Did use it for more than 2 minutes? If you want something more feature-full but not bother with Extensions, Opera's the browser of choice.

You want to use one of the big 5, if for no other reason than having a standards compliant and secure browser (I forgot about secure). Given that Avant is made by some never-heard-of Chinese company I doubt it's half as secure as these browsers.

Anyway, browsers are like Anti-Malware software. There is no "one-for-all" browser.

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Re: Should I change browser?

Unread post by bradavon » 12 Mar 2010, 13:07

@ Mark: If you dislike Chrome. Give Firefox or Opera a try. Firefox auto-imports IE content, Opera doesn't but there is an Import function (although it's still quite manual). Anything is better than IE frankly, even Safari which is also pretty rubbish (on Windows anyway).

I forgot to say Chrome, Safari and Opera all pass the Acid 3 test, which is the standard for how well a browser supports web standards. Firefox 3.6 is 94% and IE8 a dreadful 20%. Avant isn't even mentioned, so we've no idea how it will handle web pages. It's likely to be as rubbish as IE, being just a clever front end for it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid3#Desktop_browsers

IE8 is much better than IE6/IE7 but clearly still rubbish. The reason it's so bad is because MS for years could force web designers to use "their own" web standards. They no longer have this luxury.

Firefox (and Opera) has more features than Chrome but for someone who isn't technical and just wants a "lightweight/efficient" browser "out of the box", IMO it's the way to go.

For those who use Mac all the "Big 5" browsers have Mac versions, except IE. Firefox, Chrome and Opera are also available on Linux.

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Re: Should I change browser?

Unread post by Shingster » 12 Mar 2010, 13:37

bradavon wrote:Is there a Firefox search engine for this site? For Chrome:

1. Go Trick http://www.jdorama.com
2. Search for something. This will add it's search engine into Chrome. As far I'm aware it works with any "search engine". Chrome automatically adds in the ability to search on any site, automatically after searching once
3. Now you can type, into the address bar Jdorama.com XXX. Where XXX is what you want to search for

Obviously Jdorama.com is a lot to type, so go into Chrome options and change the keyword to say just J:

1. Click the Spanner
2. Click Options
3. Basics tab
4. Manage under "Default Search"
5. Locate Jdorama.com and change it's keyword

This may sound technical but the first part is automatic and it's no more technical than adding in a Firefox search engine. This is also quicker, in Firefox you have to change the search engine using the mouse but in Chrome you you just change the keyword (say J for Jdorama.com or D for DVD Times).

As it happens I prefer Firefox too but Chrome is faster and a solid browser in it's own right.
Meh, it'd be fine if you only have a limited number of search engines you regulrly use and can assign a simple one-key name to each engine, but if you have 30+ like me then you have to be more creative with the names and thus it becomes much more longwinded than a simple drop-down search bar like in firefox.

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Re: Should I change browser?

Unread post by bradavon » 12 Mar 2010, 15:17

30+ OMG! You surely don't use that many regularly? Fair point. It's not designed for that many (that you use regularly anyway). At the end of the day, Firefox, Chrome and Opera are all excellent.

I prefer Firefox too but then we're technical. I hope Mozilla fix the ruddy Firefox load time. It's noticeably longer than the rest.

For what it's worth, you can do what Chrome can do in Firefox too. It's quite a hidden feature though. In Firefox it also works without adding anything to search. I've got b assigned to this forum. I just type b and press Enter.

EDIT: Actually here's an Extension to give Chrome a Firefox like "search box". The beauty is it's compatible with "Firefox's Search Engines":

https://chrome.google.com/extensions/de ... ljephjabjd

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Re: Should I change browser?

Unread post by Shingster » 12 Mar 2010, 21:06

Yup I regularly use around 35 bookmarks, that extension is pretty cool and I'm warming up to it now, but I'm still not sold on the browser thanks to a couple of seemingly nonsensical design decisions - for instance why do you have to have the bookmarks toolbar showing just to access your bookmarks drop-down menu? Also, why the hell is the url so fucking long? I'd much prefer a shorter url bar and the search box next to it ala Firefox, with a bookmarks drop-down menu tab to the left of the url bar next to the home icon.

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Re: Should I change browser?

Unread post by gasteropod » 12 Mar 2010, 21:19

The omnibox gets shorter with the more extensions you install.

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Re: Should I change browser?

Unread post by Shingster » 12 Mar 2010, 21:59

That's only a solution if you want to install those extra extensions, unless there are extensions that allow a search bar and bookmarks drop down menu to be displayed next to the omni bar? :P

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Re: Should I change browser?

Unread post by Markgway » 12 Mar 2010, 22:04

I have 29 bookmarks currently. They appear in a menu on the left side of the screen. I always leave the tab open for quick access. That's very useful to me. I'm also used to having a drop down URL/search bar (top centre of screen) for sites that are recent but not regular. I'm not particularly demanding as you can imagine by I am used to a few simple functions.
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Re: Should I change browser?

Unread post by gasteropod » 12 Mar 2010, 22:08

Why would you want an extra search bar when the omnibox does it all? I agree about the bookmarks menu though, although due the omnibox's memory I get to any of my favourites simply by typing the first letter or two into it so don't need a menu anymore anyway. In case you don't know, you press Ctrl, Shift, and B to bring up the bookmarks menu.

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Re: Should I change browser?

Unread post by bradavon » 12 Mar 2010, 22:25

Shingster wrote:for instance why do you have to have the bookmarks toolbar showing just to access your bookmarks drop-down menu?
That is odd. I find it useful though so don't mind. I "think" it's like this in Opera too btw (have you tried it?). I believe it's because it's all based around the Address Bar. The menu for bookmarks is more of a "classic" trade off. Why would you want to turn off the bookmark bar though? I personally dislike:

1. Why is the bookmarks menu on the right? I've created my own submenu called "bookmarks" and moved it to the left side but it still leaves "other bookmarks" there.
2. Personally I dislike how what's downloading takes up it's own tab. I prefer a separate window.

These are all niggles though. Firefox isn't perfect. It can consume too much memory, it's interface is very outdated by modern browsers and it takes too long too load.
Shingster wrote:Also, why the hell is the url so fucking long? I'd much prefer a shorter url bar and the search box next to it ala Firefox
We've discussed this one. Google have decided to take a different approach to "search engines". Why does it matter how long it is? Some URLs are really long.
Markgway wrote:I have 29 bookmarks currently.
I've no idea how many I have, probably closer to 50. It's all categorised by relevant folder names. Shing meant Search Engines not Bookmarks though.
Markgway wrote:They appear in a menu on the left side of the screen. I always leave the tab open for quick access.
The way bookmarks appear in IE7-8 is rubbish IMO (where a drop out appear from the left). A drop down menu is much better (which can be achieved by turning Menus back on). You can do this in Firefox too btw. Not Chrome and I don't know about Opera.

Personally I wouldn't leave a menu open all the time, it would mean pages are squashed to the right. Maybe consider installing all 3 and see which you prefer. They're all small downloads, easily removed and have unique features. All 3 are much, much faster than IE.
Markgway wrote:I'm also used to having a drop down URL/search bar (top centre of screen) for sites that are recent but not regular.
That's been standard on web browsers since day dot :D.
gasteropod wrote:Why would you want an extra search bar when the omnibox does it all?
Agreed overall but Shing explained on the prior page he uses 35 search engines regularly. That's a hell of a lot. I do find it hard to believe anyone can visit 35 websites regularly that have a search function. I use about 8-10.
gasteropod wrote:although due the omnibox's memory I get to any of my favourites simply by typing the first letter or two into it so don't need a menu anymore anyway.
It is mighty intelligent. To be clear, much of it has been taken from Firefox. It searches Bookmarks, History and Smart Keywords too.

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