Skyfall

[Markgway]

Adele theme song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HKoqNJt ... e=youtu.be

Not horrible like the last one... but bland, dull and (some notes) off-key.

[luckystars]

Fairly weak song. Gets boring then the last 3rd is awful.

[grim_tales]

Better than the last one definitely (though thats not hard)

[Markgway]

You have to go back to Goldeneye for the last decent theme.

[HungFist]

You have to go back to Goldeneye for the last decent movie

ok, Casino Royale aside. That one was rather good.

[Markgway]

Just heard the song again... it's worse the second time.

The vocals are piss poor.

[grim_tales]

You have to go back to Goldeneye for the last decent theme.

The one for The World is Not Enough was quite good. As for TND, the ending theme by kd lang (Surrender) was actually better than the opening one IMO. That should have been used.

[Markgway]

As for TND, the ending theme by kd lang (Surrender) was actually better than the opening one IMO. That should have been used.

Agreed. That was a great song and whomever was repsonsible for turning it down should've been kicked in the balls (fanny if it was a woman).

[Markgway]

http://www.bbfc.co.uk/BFF289704/

Contains moderate action violence and one use of strong language

I hope that's a mistake. After 5 decades and 22 films they've NOW decided to say 'fuck' in a Bond film. Even the series' most violent entires (Licence to Kill, Casino Royale) never had strong language. Why now? I grew up watching Bond - my parents wouldn't have let me see them if they'd had the f-word. Can you imagine 'On Her Majesty's Secret Service' with a 'fuck off, Blofeld!". This spoils it for kids. Yes, I know standards have slipped thanks to the 12A certificate but it's a real shame that a long running family series in now tainted by a modern inability to hold one's tongue. I don't care if the latest Tarantino has 400 uses of the word 'fuck' - that's fine - but Bond shouldn't have any. Maybe no one else cares? We'll see...

[grim_tales]

I agree it doesnt seem right to have the word "fuck" (if thats what it is) in a Bond film
I thought they used "fuck" in Licence to Kill but I may be wrong. Technically they used it in Goldeneye when Xenia says "Bliad" meaning "Whore" (roughly equivalent to fuck).

[Markgway]

No 'fucks' in 'Licence to Kill'. It's mouthed in 'Live and Let Die' but that's it. Is adding an f-word supposed to make 'Skyfall' all gritty and mature? By that token we should've had one use of strong language in 'The Dark Knight Rises' or else it's a kiddie's flick.

[Yi-Long]

First reactions to Skyfall are VERY VERY positive....

http://commanderbond.net/15805/skyfall- ... m=facebook

I'm so happy, I could go out and fuck an octopussy.

[Markgway]

Yeah, overwhelmingly positive. I was worried because I'm not a Sam Mendes fan, but then I really enjoyed Quantum of Solace, so who knows if I'll agree with the general consensus?

[grim_tales]

I liked Quantum too, OK the editing was annoying but still a solid Bond flick imo
The use of fuck in a Bond film is curious at this stage granted, especially since Casino Royale didnt have it.
However, its only one single use by Albert Finney's character, from what I read - its not as if Bond himself is saying it and we dont know the context at this stage. There are bigger things to worry about.

[Markgway]

There are bigger things to worry about.

'Worry' isn't the right word. I'm more disappointed than anything else. For 50 years and 22 movies you could always rely on Bond for family entertainment (which is what the original producers intended). Who here didn't grow up on Bank Holiday TV screenings and VHS rentals? I've never complained about the series' changes in tone, attempts to 'go grittier, more dramatic', because there was always a line that wouldn't be crossed. Now it's been crossed. It's not the word - fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck!! - it's the principle. It would be like putting an f-word in Indiana Jones or Batman; some things you just leave alone. The Bond producers' determination to turn this character into Jason Bourne has finally come full circle (this Bond drinks beer and looks like a thug). SKYFALL may be a terrific movie - and I hope it is - but the Bond I grew up with is sadly no longer with us. The 'one use of strong language' plastered on the poster is a cyncial marketing ploy that's been used (and overused) in a bid to say 'hey, this isn't just for kids!'. Why? Is that such a bad thing. I loved watching Bond with my parents. Wouldn't happen now. I know some parents might not care, but I'd imagine an awful lot do.

[HungFist]

For 50 years and 22 movies you could always rely on Bond for family entertainment (which is what the original producers intended).

Many Bond films are very violent, like Goldeneye and License to Kill, rightfully rated 16 in Finland, not family entertainment by any means. I know BBFC is more strick about language, but by my Finnish standards your argument seems absurd: the 16-rated violence of the earlier movies vs. the 7 or 12 rated language of the latest...

I can understand your personal disappointment, though, in the sense that after 22 movies they didn't really have to start introducing foul language...

edit: ok, you're right, these are British movies, so if they're crossing British lines then I guess it's intentional. But in Finland no one would ever even notice the difference (in language)...

[Markgway]

edit: ok, you're right, these are British movies, so if they're crossing British lines then I guess it's intentional. But in Finland no one would ever even notice the difference (in language)...

I understand that my disappointment wouldn't register the same with someone from outwith the UK. Profanity (at least Anglo-profanity) isn't an issue in European countries but is in the UK and it's by UK standards these films are made (hence the desperation to get a specific 12A ceriticate). I know some will think I'm being overly fussy but it's not the word itself that shocks me - I use it often enough - it's the inappropriate use in a film series where it doesn't - or didn't - belong.

[Markgway]

From the BBFC:

"SKYFALL contains a single use of strong language, which is uttered when a character states they have "f**ked up". The use is resigned rather than aggressive and is not directed at another person. There is also some moderate and mild bad language, including uses of 'bitch', 'bloody', 'buggered', 'shit', 'hell', 'damned', 'Christ' and 'God'."

Sounds utterly gratuitous to me. Wouldn't "I screwed up" have done just as well?

[Yi-Long]

From the BBFC:

"SKYFALL contains a single use of strong language, which is uttered when a character states they have "f**ked up". The use is resigned rather than aggressive and is not directed at another person. There is also some moderate and mild bad language, including uses of 'bitch', 'bloody', 'buggered', 'shit', 'hell', 'damned', 'Christ' and 'God'."

Sounds utterly gratuitous to me. Wouldn't "I screwed up" have done just as well?

'Fuck' today is much more part of everyday language than it was 40 years ago. In the used context, it's also pretty well accepted.

Personally, I don't have any problem with it. In fact, I find self-censorship a lot more objectionable than the use of swear-words.

[Markgway]

'Fuck' today is much more part of everyday language than it was 40 years ago. In the used context, it's also pretty well accepted.

Would you say it in front of your parents or kids though? It's not always appropriate to use strong language. Maybe in Holland it's different.

Personally, I don't have any problem with it. In fact, I find self-censorship a lot more objectionable than the use of swear-words.

I don't see restraint being the same as self-censorship. If they can go for 50 years and 22 films without saying 'fuck' I really don't see why that record of family suitability should be broken just so someone can say 'fucked up'. Yes, people swear - I'm not being a hypocrite - but it's neither big nor clever and to stick in just one to get a rating or status is unpleasantly cynical.

[grim_tales]

It would have been a 12A without the "fuck" I'm sure The BBFC said its discreet and not aggressive etc... I'll see before judging.

[Yi-Long]

'Fuck' today is much more part of everyday language than it was 40 years ago. In the used context, it's also pretty well accepted.

Would you say it in front of your parents or kids though? It's not always appropriate to use strong language. Maybe in Holland it's different.

I've never really been that hung up over words TBH. It honestly doesn't bother me when people use swear-words or whatever. And I would use them in normal conversation if it comes up in a natural way.

It's not like I'm swearing AT people btw. It's mostly used for certain situations or whatever, like a frustrating videogame or dropping something.

Also, I think I swear the most when I'm around my mom, mostly because I was six when my dad went out of the picture, so I kinda got on an 'equal level' with her, meaning she'd let me make my own choices and decisions and respected my opinion on matters. It also meant I grew up in an environment where I could just speak my mind in my own words, and she also knows the value of words is only in what value is given to those words by those who object to them.

Also, my mom kinda gets my 'humor' of saying the complete opposite of something that is acceptable or expected, meaning we both like 'dark' humor, which is often based on saying something horrible.

When it comes to kids, it's not like I'll go out of my way to teach them swear words or something, but I'm not gonna sugarcoat my vocabulary either, so if here or there a swear word comes out, tough luck. It's really no big deal.

I'll teach my kids to respect themselfs, and others, meaning just normal behaviour, politeness, etc etc, but they would be free to use the words they want to use, as long as it's not aimed at others (unless they deserve it obviously). But if their bike breaks down and they come home and call it a shitty bike, I wouldn't blink my eyes. They'd probably be absolutely right to call it a shitty bike.

Personally, I really never swear AT people. Even when someone will be extremely insulting or annoying or whatever, I actually always stay really cool and silent, and once they go too far, I just pop them one in the mouth. Obviously, that hasn't happened in quite some time.

I'm guessing the BBFC has less problems with hitting people in the head than they have with swearing, considering their ratings...(!)

Personally, I don't have any problem with it. In fact, I find self-censorship a lot more objectionable than the use of swear-words.

I don't see restraint being the same as self-censorship. If they can go for 50 years and 22 films without saying 'fuck' I really don't see why that record of family suitability should be broken just so someone can say 'fucked up'. Yes, people swear - I'm not being a hypocrite - but it's neither big nor clever and to stick in just one to get a rating or status is unpleasantly cynical.

Well, I'm not saying they should drop this kinda language in with the intention of being 'big' or 'clever', but they also shouldn't avoid this kinda language out of some sort of 'self-censorship'. That's just ridiculous to me.

'I fucked up' is a completely normal and harmless expression to me. 'I messed up' would actually sound out of place in such a situation.

I think the whole discussion is complete nonsense anyway. You've got Bond hitting and shooting people left and right, and we're having a discussion about 1 character uttering the word 'fuck'!? Seriously! I can't for the life of me figure out what all the drama is about.

[HungFist]

I think the whole discussion is complete nonsense anyway. You've got Bond hitting and shooting people left and right, and we're having a discussion about 1 character uttering the word 'fuck'!? Seriously! I can't for the life of me figure out what all the drama is about.

The Finnish rating was just announced: 16 for violence.

For comparison, other movies currently in Finnish cinemas:
The Bourne Legacy: 12 for violence
Total Recall: 12 for violence
The Dark Knight Rises: 12 for violence
Taken 2: 16 for violence
Killer Joe: 16 for violence
Dredd 3D: 18 for violence

The interesting thing about the (new) Finnish system is that the distributors themself set the rating which they find suitable. Since it's in their commercial interest to set a lower rating, they must have felt quite strongly that Skyfall is not suitable for 12 year olds... (well, the whole system is broken anyway... there was a good system with government board and ratings like 11, 13, 15... but now they changed it to to 12, 16... which leaves too big gaps and films like Bond that tend to fall somewhere between 12 ja 16 are the ones that suffer most). edit: forgot a person 3 years younger can get it with a parent... so a 13 year old can see Skyfall with a guardian.

As for the fuck, I do realize that is something more likely to be imitated in real life by kids than the violence, but then again, the violence also requires understanding that you can't kick your friend in the face in real life. So if you don't have confidence that your kid can hear one fuck without imitating it in real life, I would be much more worried about all the violence in these movies. The non-bloody, happy go lucky violence is most problematic as it makes violence look fun and harmless, and requires the kid to understand that everything he's seen on the screen is utter bullshit.

The kids are gonna learn the swear words anyway, so just like with violence the point is not whether they are used in movies, but rather that they understand that it is not suitable to use this kind of language in everyday conversation. You can communicate this message in two ways: either parents take responsibility and teach/discuss with their kinds, or the socity pretends such words do not exist (in the 12 rated Bond world) which will probably just leave kids very confused.

Well, anyway, the Japanese release date is not until in December (fucking idiots!) so I'll have to wait a while to judge for myself.

[Yi-Long]

I think the whole discussion is complete nonsense anyway. You've got Bond hitting and shooting people left and right, and we're having a discussion about 1 character uttering the word 'fuck'!? Seriously! I can't for the life of me figure out what all the drama is about.

The Finnish rating was just announced: 16 for violence.

For comparison, other movies currently in Finnish cinemas:
The Bourne Legacy: 12 for violence
Total Recall: 12 for violence
The Dark Knight Rises: 12 for violence
Taken 2: 16 for violence
Killer Joe: 16 for violence
Dredd 3D: 18 for violence

The interesting thing about the (new) Finnish system is that the distributors themself set the rating which they find suitable. Since it's in their commercial interest to set a lower rating, they must have felt quite strongly that Skyfall is not suitable for 12 year olds... (well, the whole system is broken anyway... there was a good system with government board and ratings like 11, 13, 15... but now they changed it to to 12, 16... which leaves too big gaps and films like Bond that tend to fall somewhere between 12 ja 16 are the ones that suffer most). edit: forgot a person 3 years younger can get it with a parent... so a 13 year old can see Skyfall with a guardian.

As for the fuck, I do realize that is something more likely to be imitated in real life by kids than the violence, but then again, the violence also requires understanding that you can't kick your friend in the face in real life. So if you don't have confidence that your kid can hear one fuck without imitating it in real life, I would be much more worried about all the violence in these movies. The non-bloody, happy go lucky violence is most problematic as it makes violence look fun and harmless, and requires the kid to understand that everything he's seen on the screen is utter bullshit.

The kids are gonna learn the swear words anyway, so just like with violence the point is not whether they are used in movies, but rather that they understand that it is not suitable to use this kind of language in everyday conversation. You can communicate this message in two ways: either parents take responsibility and teach/discuss with their kinds, or the socity pretends such words do not exist (in the 12 rated Bond world) which will probably just leave kids very confused.

Well, anyway, the Japanese release date is not until in December (fucking idiots!) so I'll have to wait a while to judge for myself.

Agreed. Obviously parents need to lay down the ground rules and teach their kids what's acceptable behaviour, as well as teaching kids the difference between real life, and entertainment.

[Markgway]

I rewatched Casino Royale (uncut) the other day and am at a loss as to how even the (slightly) edited version got thru with a 12A. I mean, his balls are being pulverised! And yet Taken's torture scene (with electricity) got that film an '18'.

To be clear: I don't think strong language harms children (and am aware that it's a non-issue in Europe) my only gripe is that they put the 'once, strong' in a Bond movie. Had the reboot started with an R-rated Casino Royale that had bloody squibs and 30 'fucks' I would've understood. But ONE (cynical) f-word is out of place to my mind. I felt given the series' history - and the fact that the first fifteen Bonds were actually 'PG' - it was worth discussing - even if you don't all agree with me. They should've made this Bond #3 and severed cinematic ties with the previous more family-friendly series.