What asian film/series have you just seen.. marks out of 5

[HungFist]

Sonny almost got beheaded there



I'm waiting for "Mark & Heka" version of this scene...

[luckystars]

Best change to subject. When 2 forum 'superpowers' (super-egos) clash, things can get very boring for the rest of us

[Markgway]

You're the one who's gotten the hump over Chiba.

I'm not exactly sure if you are again calling me gay but using such slurs tell more about the user of the slur than the one who's being called one. Thinking that calling somebody gay is an insult is often an indicator than someone is poor and/or ill educated.

I don't care if you're gay or not. None of my business. I like or dislike people based on their personality not sexuality. 'Hump' was a play on words as it possessing two meanings - beyond sex it means to take insult. My flippant remark about being an 'ass buddy' has been taken way too literally. I don't know why you chose to make such a big deal of it to be honest.

To refresh what is my position: The whole thing started because you augmented that Lazabys skills in OHMSS were superior to Sonny Chibas in The Street Fighter. I'm just augmenting against that. I would have posted the exact same message only with Bruce Lee switched with Chiba if you'd said that: Lazabys skills in OHMSS were superior to Bruce Lee's in Fist of Fury.

It's the way your argued that I had a problem with. If you think Chiba is terrific then that's fine by me. To each his own. But you basically dismissed myself and Shingster as 'know nothing fools' for dare suggesting otherwise. YOU dropped the tone, mate. I merely followed. And FTR I think Bruce Lee would wipe the floor with Chiba and Lazenby at the same time.

I'm glad to argue with you, it's nice practice for my English.

You can practice English just as well by being nice to people and having a friendly debate.

The reason why I lowered my tone is because I seem to have incited so much "internet rage" (in you Mark) with only a short message

What rage? I wasn't angry until you called me out. You provoked me by making this whole thing personal. Everyone here knows I prefer humour over confrontation... BUT if someone confronts me I'll take them on. Simple as that.

but you said Lazabys skills are superior than Chibas which is something I don't buy.

In real life I'm sure Chiba is greatly skilled. However I don't see it on screen. There wasn't a single move of his (in those clips) that I couldn't replicate - and I'm no black belt. Also I genuinely think those action scenes are very poor. That's not to piss anyone off. It's my honest opinion. What else can I say? Disagree all you want but don't disrespect me.

[Markgway]

Now THAT'S gay!!

[Shingster]

(not that it has anything to do with out case here, just pointing out it's one of the dummest arguments known to man)

No, the dumbest argument known to man is the patronising "you don't know what the hell you're talking about" or "you're just a plebian, what do you know??" when someone expresses a differing opinion**. I expressed an opinion on a performer, Mark did likewise, you and Heka were teh ones who got a bug up their arse and started claiming that two long-time members (much longer serving members than yourselves) didn't know what the hell we were talking about when it came to Asian action films. If you think two people like myself and Mark with over 20yrs clocked as Asian film nuts know nothing about HK or Japanese action films then my friend, it is you who is the ignorant one. THAT was my point, not to claim "I've been watching films longer than you so I know more". I've been watching Asian films longer than you Hung, so I know SOMETHING. (Usually I have to spell things out like this because I'm arguing with brad, it's very tiring to have to do this to someone I actually credit with intelligence.)

** Oh and my opinion of Chiba isn't as opposing as Mark's, I think Chiba was a great action lead and yes more than just a "bad Lee clone" (that was unfair of me, but that's how most HK film fans switching over to JPN cinema would probably view him from films like the streetfighter). He was hindered as you say by the limiations imposed by the Japanese film industry, but that didn't stop him borrowing wholesale from Bruce Lee films and generally dong a rather mediocre job with the martial arts aspect: ala that dojo scene from Streetfighter, which pales in comparison to Lee's in Fist of Fury. Chiba's got the attitude, he's emphasising power, but his technique is ungainly and his gesticulations are laughable. It's like watching your dad attempt a bad impersonation of Bruce Lee's mannerisms.

[HungFist]

(not that it has anything to do with out case here, just pointing out it's one of the dummest arguments known to man)

No, the dumbest argument known to man is the patronising "you don't know what the hell you're talking about" or "you're just a plebian, what do you know??" when someone expresses a differing opinion**. I expressed an opinion on a performer, Mark did likewise, you and Heka were teh ones who got a bug up their arse and started claiming that two long-time members (much longer serving members than yourselves) didn't know what the hell we were talking about when it came to Asian action films. If you think two people like myself and Mark with over 20yrs clocked as Asian film nuts know nothing about HK or Japanese action films then my friend, it is you who is the ignorant one. THAT was my point, not to claim "I've been watching films longer than you so I know more". I've been watching Asian films longer than you Hung, so I know SOMETHING. (Usually I have to spell things out like this because I'm arguing with brad, it's very tiring to have to do this to someone I actually credit with intelligence.)

** Oh and my opinion of Chiba isn't as opposing as Mark's, I think Chiba was a great action lead and yes more than just a "bad Lee clone" (that was unfair of me, but that's how most HK film fans switching over to JPN cinema would probably view him from films like the streetfighter). He was hindered as you say by the limiations imposed by the Japanese film industry, but that didn't stop him borrowing wholesale from Bruce Lee films and generally dong a rather mediocre job with the martial arts aspect: ala that dojo scene from Streetfighter, which pales in comparison to Lee's in Fist of Fury. Chiba's got the attitude, he's emphasising power, but his technique is ungainly and his gesticulations are laughable. It's like watching your dad attempt a bad impersonation of Bruce Lee's mannerisms.

We're just having fun arguing here, although it went a bit too agressive between Heka and Mark.

I can't speak for Heka, but I never did say "you don't know anything". If you look more carefully, you'll see I only commented your sayings twice, first with the "poor man's Bruce Lee", which was an ignorant stament, and then with the "I'm older" part, which is a very cheap argument commonly by people who have ran out of real arguments. The latter especially deserved some feedback, as it's something a person as knowledgeable about cinema as you should not use even by accident (I'm sure you didn't intend it as "argument")...

... unless used in ironic context. As you've seen, I constantly use similar statements in ironic and provocative sense. But they backfire very fast if the readers don't get the (half)joke. I sure have experience of that

As for Mark's posts, actually, I never even commented them. I do get the feeling I've been credited for things I didn't say...

[Shingster]

My apologies Hung, it was Heka who made those comments, I've not really been following the thread as thoroughly as I normally do (busy with personal stuff) and I got his posts mixed up with yours. And no I wasn't trying to make an argument for some form of cinematic "authority" on here because of my age, just to point out that you don't watchasian cinema as long as me & mark without learning a thing or two. I obviously respect your opinion on Japanese cinema immensely and like Mark with HK cinema consider it to be more comprehensive than my own, despite the fact you are younger than an old git like me. (I've always been a Jack of All Trades film fan, never really spending enough time on any single genre or industry to truly specialise in anything).

[HungFist]

hey, no hard feelings. I'm sometimes guilty of that too. Hell, I even now thought I had argued with Mark until I checked and found out I hadn't. Lucky me, I could use it as argument to save my ass

Ok, but let's not get too gay here. Let's kill Heka instead. For greater good

[Markgway]

I should emphasise that I've only seen ONE Chiba film in its entirety and that's The Street Fighter.

It could very well be that I see another sometime and think 'hey, this guy is a really charismatic actor' or 'wow, that was a great action sequence'.

My (negative) opinion is based only on what I've seen and Shingster's comments:

....generally dong a rather mediocre job with the martial arts aspect: ala that dojo scene from Streetfighter, which pales in comparison to Lee's in Fist of Fury. Chiba's got the attitude, he's emphasising power, but his technique is ungainly and his gesticulations are laughable. It's like watching your dad attempt a bad impersonation of Bruce Lee's mannerisms.

...concur with my own.

Hell, I even now thought I had argued with Mark until I checked and found out I hadn't.

There's always time.....

[Heka]

Ok, but let's not get too gay here. Let's kill Heka instead. For greater good

Et tu, Brute? (Though in real life I think you are Caesar and I'm your disciple)

I do realise that if we were having this same argument over a pint in a pub the discussion would be much more... lets say mellow. I have no quarrel with Mark or Shingster as people and I may have used language that was a bit too strong in my initial post about the subject.

It's the way your argued that I had a problem with. If you think Chiba is terrific then that's fine by me. To each his own. But you basically dismissed myself and Shingster as 'know nothing fools' for dare suggesting otherwise. YOU dropped the tone, mate. I merely followed. And FTR I think Bruce Lee would wipe the floor with Chiba and Lazenby at the same time.

I can see that I made an error in the way I "spiced" up my message to make it a bit more provocative. I too think that somebody like Bruce Lee is way better than Sonny Chiba both as an actor and as an athlete, probably also as an martial artist though these two never had the chance to test themselves againt each other. I do however still think that Chiba was a decent enough action star way out of Lazenbys league.

I'm again going to Helsinki hopefully to pick up some decent Asian movies to review on this thread.

[HungFist]

I should emphasise that I've only seen ONE Chiba film in its entirety and that's The Street Fighter.

Not exactly a Chiba film but I'm sure you've seen him in Kill Bill as Hattori Hanzo (a legendary character which he also played in the long running TV series Shadow Warriors)

Bruce Lee is way better than Sonny Chiba as an actor

I'm terribly tempted to challenge you on this as I happen to think Chiba was a much better actor than Lee (although that's not to say either one them were challenging Toshiro Mifune...). But now, seeing you're off to Helsinki, I'll let you live a little longer

Btw, if you want to pick up Asian movies in Helsinki, check out Pieni leffakauppa. It's close to Sörnäinen station

Ok, time to let Chiba and Lee rest for a while. I'll write some review next (but first, I'll go grab some fresh air)

[Markgway]

I have seen Kill Bill (both vols). Chiba was fine in that (although it wasn't a leading or action role).

[Heka]

Bruce Lee is way better than Sonny Chiba as an actor

I'm terribly tempted to challenge you on this as I happen to think Chiba was a much better actor than Lee (although that's not to say either one them were challenging Toshiro Mifune...). But now, seeing you're off to Helsinki, I'll let you live a little longer

It may be that I idolize Bruce too much and that clouds my judgement but I think that his acting was very good for the roles he did. I also think that his attitude towards acting was very good as one can see from this famous interview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pIEKv_Tyno

Well I'm off to bed since I got to get up early for the long drive to Helsinki.

edit: Thanks for the Pieni Leffakauppa recommendation. I'll check out what the store has to offer.

[HungFist]

Gantz (Japan, 2011) – 1.5/5
One of the more interesting Japanese multi-platform success stories, Gantz, finally arrives cinemas as a two part live action film following the example set by Death Note. The first half leaves much to be desired. Adapted from an ultra-violent and sexually graphic sci-fi manga into a pg-12 movie, the film hardly does justice to its source material. Violence is bloody enough to earn the film high ratings overseas (15-18), but all skin and outrageous sexual jokes have been dropped. Even more worrying is the simplification of characters and storyline. In comparison, the anime series was never that great either, but it gained interest points by playing its story slow, and spicing it with humor, sex and violence. The film missing the first three qualities and toning down the fourth, what is left is monotonic although technically sufficient CGI-mayhem. The cast is interesting but wholly underperforming - Kazunari Ninomiya especially makes a lackluster (anti) hero.

Blue (Japan, 2002) – 3.5/5
Hiroshi Ando’s slow burner film takes a little while to get into. The manga adapted story of two high school girls lacks any melodrama and cinematic fireworks: no comic reliefs, no flashy club scenes, and no pop music, in fact, almost no background music at all. Instead Ando plays it very low key and often uses very long takes with only the two leading actresses in the frame. Admittedly, Manami Konoshi’s one-dimensional character is little more than story catalyst for the protagonist played by the wonderful Mikako Ichikawa. Her terrific performance as an introverted high school girl is much like the film itself: the longer it runs, the more fascinating it becomes. A beautiful movie.

edit: Thanks for the Pieni Leffakauppa recommendation. I'll check out what the store has to offer.

Fun little story from last year: I had agreed to sell Zombie Hunter Rika DVD to a friend in Helsinki. We were supposed to meet at the Helsinki Int. Film Festival. Before going to the festival I went to Pieni Leffakauppa, but it was already closed. I went to the festival, and mentioned to my friend that I went to the shop but it was closed. He answered: "No wonder. The owner is here watching Love Exposure."

[thelostdragon]

Gantz (Japan, 2011) – 1.5/5

I got the first 5 volumes of the manga. It was the German translation and I really liked it. However, they sadly stopped releasing further volumes after the 5th.

[HungFist]

Death Note & The Last Name (Japan, 2006) – 4/5
With the Japanese entertainment industry milking their cash cows to death (manga --> anime --> video game --> novel --> live action --> action figures --> chewing gum) it’s always a small miracle when one of these products arrives cinema screens successfully. Death Note, despite some compulsory complaints by manga / anime fans, is an exceptionally successful adaptation for making a perfectly functional standalone product. Former porno director Shusuke Kaneko’s films serve slick brain candy and excellent casting, including Japan’s favorite blockhead Tatsuya Fujiwara, cool gone geek Kenichi Matsuyama (totally hilarious), and the ridiculously cute Erika Toda and Hikari Mitsushima (Love Exposure). Released in two parts à la Kill Bill, it’s a fast 4½ hours, aside a slightly stretched ending. Soundtrack by Kenji Kawai and Red Hot Chili Peppers.

Sky High (Japan, 2003) – 1/5
The guardian of the Heaven’s Gate (=CGI shack) battles with supernatural killer in Ryuhei Kitamura’s beyond embarrassing fantasy film. Adapted from a TV show, the film looks like z-grade TV film blessed with a screenplay that has difficulties holding interest even for 5 minutes. Action choreography – poor as camel’s ass – consists of laughable poses and stage fighting with zero illusion of people actually trying to hit each other. Over-length (2h+) doesn’t make the suffering any easier. The only positive about the pic is the stunning black dress worn by Yumiko Shaku and Eihi Shiina. Gonna get one for kanojo when I get back to Japan if it doesn’t cost fortunes.

[thelostdragon]

Sky High (Japan, 2003) – 1/5

One of the many films I have on DVD but didn't bother to watch, yet. Even though I am actually a fan of Kitamura's work.

[HungFist]

aah, I would've been happy to sell you the R2J

[grim_tales]

Conficius: 3.5/5

Handsomely mounted epic teling the life story of the philosopher/thinker. Chow Yun Fat is very good in it but it was sometimes hard to keep track of who was who, and though its more of a drama movie concentrating on the history (which I didnt know much about) there are some impressive battle scenes too.
It was an emotional story.
I noticed in the part when Confiucius speaks with the Daoist sage/Elder, the elder quotes things about how water can penetrate rocks and how soft it is... the same philosophy as Bruce Lee's "Be water" speech

[Markgway]

Ergo Bruce Lee is the reincarnation of Confucius' teacher.

Bruce Lee >> Confucius.

Fact.

[grim_tales]

Bruce probably came across Confucius in his philosophy studies, though I'm sure that didnt form all his ideas.

[grim_tales]

Metade Fumaca (1999): 4/5

Well played and quirky comedy-drama, with very good performances from Eric Tsang, Nic Tse and Shu Qi, even though she isnt in it much she looks amazing
Quite a touching film in places too
The tender scene when Leopard (Tsang) and Shu Qi dance (strangely she looks exactly the same as in the flashback) is a lovely, tender scene
Shame about the potrayal of Ahlzeimers at the end which is a bit tasteless I feel

[luckystars]

Bruce probably came across Confucius in his philosophy studies, though I'm sure that didnt form all his ideas.

Bruce took a lot from Krishnamurti I think.

[thelostdragon]

Bruce took a lot from Krishnamurti I think.

Such as "You gotta be a light to yourself!"

[grim_tales]

What did yo0u think of Metade Fumaca Mark/LD? I really liked it
I thought that Eric Tsang would kill himself (I know that sounds morbid) as he has finally found Shu Qi again so he can be happy and that would be the last thing he sees and he doesnt want to forget it.
I didnt get what the plot thread with Nic Tse finding his father was about? His mum tells him near the end he was a cop and you're like "Errr.. okay" We don't learn his name or anything about him. Again I thought for a sec Eric Tsang would be his dad, or something.
The part at the end was a bit tasteless.