Fucked Up Japan-China-Korea Relations

[HungFist]

China's Television War on Japan
"More than 70 anti-Japanese TV series were screened in China in 2012... How would it be possible to not to hate Japanese?”
- http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/10/opini ... .html?_r=1

Japanese Broadcast Official: We Didn’t Commit War Crimes, the U.S. Just Made That Up
- http://world.time.com/2014/02/07/japane ... z2scnENY7k

I'm seriously starting to get tired of these retards. Same shit for more than 65 years now.

Japan commits some horrible crimes in WWII, forgets to tell their own citizens about it. Korea and China are not happy. Japan avoids making apologies, instead pays millions in money to Korea and China. Korea and China are not happy, but accept the money anyway, of course forget to tell their own citizens about it. China drops their claims for further compensations. Later Chinese politics change and they begin anti-Japan propaganda + keep faking Nanking proof - even though no one ever doubted it in the first place. Japan sends a prime minister to apologize in Korea - and pay more money. Korea is not happy - accept the money anyway, forgets to tell its people. Meanwhile Japanese prime ministers come and go - and their apologies "fade into air".

Fast forward to 2013.

Japanese citizens are aware they were the bad guy in war; though the dirtiest details remain a bit fuzzy to them. They are, however, well informed about how many times Japan has paid money (to Korea especially). As according to the new government policy, the Chinese are systematically coached to hate "the Japanese devils". China loudly critisizes Japan for their military expenditures, while at the same time spending far greater amounts of money in their own military. Japanese citizens begin to get frustrated as they feel China and Korea will never forgive them, just ask more money.

For the Japanese kneeling down and begging for forgiveness in a society that values face and collectivity becomes ever more difficult - after all, the current politicians were not even born when the events they are supposed to take responsibility of took place. Every few years someone takes advantage of it and earns himself a small but loud bunch of supporters by saying "we didn't do Nanking, the Chinese made that up". And the fucking retard government, who changes prime minister every year, makes no effort to control such stupidity.

I hate to see the new nationalist rising in Japan, but sadly I can understand perfectly why it's happening. It only makes perfect sense under the circumstances



Wouldn't they just stick to Sora Aoi's AV and everybody be happy wanking?

[Markgway]

If Japan had done what Germany did and owned their war crimes then Asia would be a different place today. Saving face (or trying to buy off China and Korea) has proved that nothing can replace confession and sincere apology. Until that happens...

[HungFist]

Well, that was the case 60 years ago. Now it's not so easy anymore... nor fair. I must apoligize for an emotional example - I hate using such but can't help it this time: should my 22 year old Japanese girlfriend kneel down and beg for forgiveness on something that happened before she was born? Before her parents were born. At the time her grandparents were toddlers... Something she had absolutely nothing to do with. Her only crime was to be born as a Japanese.

Of course, if she had been born as a Chinese or Korean, she would now be hating the Japanese.

Ironic, isn't it?

As we can see, it's got nothing to do with people or victims, it's all politics. Most of the the people mistreated by Japan 70 years ago aren't here anymore. Most of the criminals aren't here anymore either. What we have is a Chinese government systematically coaching Japan-hate in schools that teach children to hate the Japanese, and TV that produces 70 Anti-Japan TV shows per year (which greatly distort history, too). The result? Riots that ended with Japanese cars burned, Japanese restaurants destroed, and a Chinese person killing another Chinese because he owned a Japanese car. Madness!

Of course, Japan has apologized and confessed quite a few times (though these apologies have been somewhat insufficient) - something that China and Korea like to keep silent about. And the money they paid to both China and Korea was not for the government, but for the victims of the war. However, neither Korea nor China gave a penny to their people, but instead used it all for government expenditures.

Now, I'm not trying to say Japan is the victim here, I'm just showing that solving this is not so simple anymore. During the war Japan was the villain. But in 2013, Japan, China and Korea are all corrupt - none of them are doing a damn thing to improve the situation, rather the opposite.

Edit: A point in case. Just look at today's news. South Korean President Park refuses to meet former Japan PM Murayama who issued an official statement in 1995 apologizing to the Asian neighbours who suffered from Japan’s wartime aggression. Japan refuses to send an official representative. Instead a former PM goes there on his own to apologize. Korea is too damn proud to meet him (or anyone whose name isn't Shinzo Abe) essentially embarrasing him and sending the message "we'll never forgive you, we won't even try" to Japan. Much good is that attitude gonna do...

[Markgway]

Well, that was the case 60 years ago. Now it's not so easy anymore... nor fair. I must apoligize for an emotional example - I hate using such but can't help it this time: should my 22 year old Japanese girlfriend kneel down and beg for forgiveness on something that happened before she was born? Before her parents were born. At the time her grandparents were toddlers... Something she had absolutely nothing to do with. Her only crime was to be born as a Japanese.

No, she has nothing to apologise for.

The Japanese government, however...

Breeding hatred is always a bad thing and I don't condone it at all. For a couple of generations in the UK it was 'the only good German is a dead German'. Just a few decades later and it's amazing to see how well Britain gets on with Germany - a key ally in Europe. The world changes, politics change, but you have to be forgiven, and to be forgiven you have to be sincere. Japan hasn't - at least that's China's perception. When you still have old bastards in Japanese government lying about war crimes, schools teaching distorted history, it's hard to take any contrition seriously. Money is a bad taste issue in talk of war, and I'm always wary of reparations as a solution. It would take some doing for Japan to come off as a victim in 2014, but for Japanese civilians I completely agree. They should not be punished.

If the former Japanese minister has been sincere in his apologies then the Koreans were wrong not to publicly accept them. As hard as it is, it's the only way to move forward. Pride is less important for the future than progress.

[HungFist]

The Japanese government, however...

I see your point, and I agree, though it's still a bit complicated. After all, government is also made of Japanese people, and these people also had nothing to do with the war. Putting "pride" away isn't nearly as easy in the Japanese society as it is in Western countries... in Japan people who lost their pride often kill themselves. The face is that important.

That's not defending the bastards who deny history, just saying separating people and government isn't always that simple, and it's no easy task for anyone to take responsibility of all the atrocities committed against hundreds of thousands of people.

But yeah, that's the only way.

Breeding hatred is always a bad thing and I don't condone it at all. For a couple of generations in the UK it was 'the only good German is a dead German'. Just a few decades later and it's amazing to see how well Britain gets on with Germany - a key ally in Europe. The world changes, politics change, but you have to be forgiven, and to be forgiven you have to be sincere. Japan hasn't - at least that's China's perception.

This is a good example, in fact, this is pretty much what I always tell Japanese people.

When you still have old bastards in Japanese government lying about war crimes, schools teaching distorted history, it's hard to take any contrition seriously.

The bastards are in the government and other leading positions, but the school thing is partly a misunderstanding. Yes, the history teaching is certainly insufficient, but don't take the "Chinese reports" on this issue. For example 14 years ago there was a junior high school history book that heavily downplayed the war stuff. That was shameful indeed, however, in reality the book was used only in 0.039% of junior high schools in Japan, and was strongly protested against in Japan. Many foreign news made it sound like the book was used in every other school.

Also things like Nanking, while probably downplayed, they do teach it in schools. Everyone I've talked with said they learned it in school. But yeah, not enough, not enough. When the incident with the Senkaku islands took place, most Japanese couldn't really make the historical connection... they were just puzzed as to why is there such as fuzz over meaningless * islands.

* Actually, some believe the whole thing with the islands has to do more with China's military agendas than anything else. There's a deep sea route suitable for nuclear submarines located next to the islands. It's impossible for China to use nuclear submarines without being caught if they don't get the islands; if they do, they can control the entire sea and even reach USA with missiles. The latter is believed to be the reason why USA is supporting Japan in the fight over the islands. Now, this is just a theory, but it's a relatively convincing one.

[Markgway]

Just to be clear... I have no love for any Communist Chinese government and can well imagine how impossible they could be to deal with. But if the Japanese do everything in their power to ask for forgiveness and are sincere about it... then the ball shifts to the other side of the court. What would China do then? Germany asked for forgiveness and Britain (and others) gave it. That's why Europe could move on. Asking and accepting are both essential for a united Asia.

[HungFist]

It was just brought to my knowledge that Korea seems to have its own dark bit of civilian massacre and rape history in Vietnam - of course something the Korean government refuses to acknowledge.
- http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news ... war-crimes
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:S ... war_crimes

[themoose77]

I recommend the book The rape of nanking about the Japanese atrocities of pre-world war 2.

Many more Chinese died at the hands of Chairman Mao Tze Tungs policies than all of the people from the whole world that died as a result of world war 2. These days China is more of an Orwellian state than a dictatorial communist state. Propaganda has been rife and immense from Mao to the present day. However, Given the history, we can't be surprised with China's dislike, distrust and paranoia of the west and Japan because the beuatiful country has been repeatedly raped and pillaged since the times of the british empire. Shanghai was taken and split into 5 zones owned by different counties including Japan and Britain. The British leased Hong Kong for 150 years for 99 taels. Such a cheap price that it was a deliberate insult and a vulgar display of british power. If Britain would have just invaded and taken it over China would have saved some face but 99 taels was deliberately undignifying for the Chinese.

Having said that, I think the PRC governments propaganda is dispicable and dangerous. If we are having a generation of Chinese in a country that will become the next 'superpower' indoctrinated with such hate for other nations, then Imagine what kind of a future the world is going have.

[themoose77]

The Taiwan issue is already starting to boil over, and the rest of the world are afraid to step in with some diplomacy tactics. The richest nations all have much invested in China, with cheap labour and globalization. Thats why they are so afraid of China now, China has the power because the likes of usa, uk and other major powers rely on it for much of it's wealth. And China knows it.

[themoose77]

I also think Jackie Chans infamous statements were misunderstood. He isn't anti american and pro-communist. He said that in a talk that lasted one hour with so much more context. I did laugh though when Jackie threatened to punch a protester if they tried to interrupt his running with the olympic torch.

[themoose77]

ps, why am I JC's measley little toe? I demand to be Bruce Lee's fist, or I will even settle for a step down from Bruce's fist to say, Abbots palm or Hwang Jang Lee's foot

[Markgway]

ps, why am I JC's measley little toe? I demand to be Bruce Lee's fist, or I will even settle for a step down from Bruce's fist to say, Abbots palm or Hwang Jang Lee's foot

How about Dean Shek's penis?

[Masterofoneinchpunch]

ps, why am I JC's measley little toe? I demand to be Bruce Lee's fist, or I will even settle for a step down from Bruce's fist to say, Abbots palm or Hwang Jang Lee's foot

How about Dean Shek's penis?

That would encourage people to post more.

[themoose77]

ps, why am I JC's measley little toe? I demand to be Bruce Lee's fist, or I will even settle for a step down from Bruce's fist to say, Abbots palm or Hwang Jang Lee's foot

How about Dean Shek's penis?

That would be even smaller than JC's little toe.

[grim_tales]

[HungFist]

ok, this is the oddest thing I've heard recently

Justin Bieber goes to Yasukuni Shrine, Chinese commentors want apology
https://twitter.com/tokyoreporter/statu ... 96/photo/1

All I can do is

[Markgway]

I think Justin Beaver should apologise just for existing.

[HungFist]

China Bans Anime and Manga from the Internet
- http://cbldf.org/2015/06/china-bans-ani ... -internet/

"In order to protect the welfare of their children and curb a potential rise in juvenile delinquency, the Chinese Ministry of Culture has issued a list of 38 Japanese manga and anime that will no longer be allowed into the country. From Attack on Titan to Death Note, the Chinese ministry issued warnings to popular Chinese websites that stream this content, ordering the sites to remove the materials or face fines."

"... For all of this talk of cleaning up the media, though, it appears that the only international materials being censored off of the digital shelves are those coming from Japan. China and Japan do have a long history of animosity, but as some Chinese citizens have pointed out, these attempts to censor by the Ministry of Culture seem to be more “anti-Japanese” and more about the perceived “cultural invasion” of Japanese media undermining China’s own culture than about protecting children.

[Markgway]