My Impression of Vista

[bradavon]

Don't expect Windows 7 until 2011:

http://www.winvistaclub.com/i7.html

A review of Windows XP from 6 months after XP came out back in 2002, it's interesting as it complains how sluggish XP is and complains how much RAM it needs:

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-3672_7-5021075-1.html

[EvaUnit02]

So I finally installed Vista (Business x64) yesterday, it took a few hours to tame it but it's pretty close to my preferred Windows set-up. I installed SP1 immediately, before all of the drivers, etc. I didn't want a repeat of my experience with Vista Business 32-bit RTM in early 2007 (that died after ~3 hours of use).

I finally caved because I bought a game with a notorious copy protection that can literally harm your system, Starforce - it literally wear out your optical drive and leave you vulnerable to malware attacks. The only cracked unprotected EXE available was for the game's DX10 upgrade, which is naturally Vista only.

The experience thus far has been fine, other than my sound driver committing suicide and having to reinstall it; but this would happen periodically with XP too. Creative Labs drivers are such rubbish.

For whatever reason the Nvidia Vista display driver ain't letting me create custom 4:3 non-standard resolutions, like 1400x1050 (best suited for TFT screens with a native resolution of 1680x1050). These are very useful for older games that don't support 16:10 widescreen.

Whatever flack that the OS has been getting in recent months is undeserved, whatever was wrong with the OS has since been fixed. I'm using Brad's recommended app, Tweak UAC, which puts UAC into an unobtrusive "silent mode" (rather than ignorantly turning it off out-right).

I'm still running XP x64 and XP32 in triple boot, I still consider XP x64 to be my primary OS. Before installing Vista I came close to nuking the XP32 partition, I pretty much only use it once every months.

[EvaUnit02]

The new sound architecture is fantastic. My music sounds better than it ever did in XP.

The removal of DirectHAL aka hardware acceleration via DirectSound sucks, considering that hundreds of legacy games implemented EAX through it. But Creative's ALchemy wrapper for OpenAL seems to do a pretty good job.

[bradavon]

Starforce - it literally wear out your optical drive and leave you vulnerable to malware attacks. The only cracked unprotected EXE available was for the game's DX10 upgrade, which is naturally Vista only.

WTF! What on earth does the official EXE do?

Whatever flack that the OS has been getting in recent months is undeserved, whatever was wrong with the OS has since been fixed.

Definitely. Obviously there were problems when Vista came out but 2 years on they've virtually non-existent. It's also worth remembering the driver manufacturers should take a lot of the blame for not getting their drivers out quick enough.

Many of the Windows 7 changes could happen in Vista but Vista's name is mud, so Microsoft decided to cut their losses and give us Windows 7. It's really Windows 6.5. Most people simply won't go near Vista, no matter how good it gets. It's sad really. I still say the majority of people who dislike Vista have never used it or barely used it.

Is Vista perfect no? It's not quite as nippy as XP (hardly surprising given out old it is), UAC in it's default form is most annoying (easily fixed) but overall it's a good O/S and definitely much better than XP. Which certainly feels dated.

At first I turned off Instant Search but I've recently turned it back on and I like it. Being able to click the Start Menu button, typing EM and eMule loads is much quicker than going through the Start Menu. It has some oddities, why "not" gives me Windows Media Player is beyond me and I have to type notep to get notepad.

I'm using Brad's recommended app, Tweak UAC, which puts UAC into an unobtrusive "silent mode" (rather than ignorantly turning it off out-right).

Good man. At least read up on what it does if you intend to turn UAC off. Not you should really ever have to, just tick "run as admin" for the few apps that must have admin rights. I've read a few people report some ancient apps must have UAC disabled. I find this very dubious and part of me says, upgrade! It's about time we didn't run 24/7 as Administrator. Incidentally you're an Administrator too on Vista with UAC on but a flag kicks in when you're about to perform an Administration task. You don't need to provide an Administrator password as you're already and Administrator. An actual Standard User runs just like it does on XP and a password is asked for.

Windows 7 has four UAC levels:

4. - On - Same as Vista's default level
3. - Same as 4 but without Secure Desktop (i.e - No dim)
2. - Only prompt when an Application/Windows does something, no Secure Desktop. Windows 7 default.
1. - Off - Same as Vista

Annoyingly it looks like there won't be Silent Mode. I'll give Level 2 ago but seeing as I like to go into Control Panel regularly I imagine I may end up using TweakUAC again. Which incidentally can be done using Group Policy (not on Home versions) but it's just easier to switch between using TweakUAC.

Before installing Vista I came close to nuking the XP32 partition, I pretty much only use it once every months.

Why do you still have it?

I downloaded Windows 7 Beta the other day. I did this for two reasons:

1. To see what it's like - It's been receiving almost 100% positive reports, fixing most of the Vista annoyances (UAC, Speed). The new user enhancements look really good too.
2. My plan is to get Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit - I currently run Vista HP 32-Bit and may as well wait for Windows 7 to go 64-Bit BUT I want to make sure I have the drivers ready. I'll be using Vista drivers where needed.

Toshiba's policy is to only provide a 64-Bit driver page for laptops which come with 4Gb RAM+. As mine came with 2Gb RAM there is only a 32-Bit driver page. I pointed out to Toshiba my laptop supports 4Gb, so how do they expect me to make use of it and there answer was 32-Bit will work just fine with 4Gb but I will only be able to see 3-3.2Gb. Gee thanks.

So I'll have to go hunting for drivers. I have Wireless drivers and bet I can find the ones I need. I remember when installing 32-Bit from a proper OEM DVD I needed only a handful of the drivers on Toshiba website. Most of the crap I didn't need at all.

[EvaUnit02]

Starforce - it literally wear out your optical drive and leave you vulnerable to malware attacks. The only cracked unprotected EXE available was for the game's DX10 upgrade, which is naturally Vista only.

WTF! What on earth does the official EXE do?

Have a good read of this site, Starforce is absolutely horrible. Thank God that Western publishers had shied away from it. It still has a stranglehold on the burgeoning Eastern European PC gaming market. It's becoming less necessary over there, have a read of this:-

These street-level stores, it turns out, are one of the most important ways in which the company are taking on Russia’s key problem: piracy. Gaming in Russia is around 70% PC-based, and so it was relatively easy for pirates to gain the upperhand, selling games for a few roubles in the same subway stalls that people use to buy cigarettes, cans of coke, and pocket-sized bottles of Vodka. 1c knew they had to combat this and their approach was quite brutal. Firstly they launched retail products that were super cheap, to compete with the pirates, and bear them on support and service. And then they lobbied for legislation to help them out.

This side of the coin is a little darker. The pirates were making a lot of money and weren’t likely to be stopped easily. They were mass-producing packaged copies that looked like real games, and were competing directly with the actual, licensed publishers for commercial product. 1C went as high as they could: to President Vladimir Putin himself. The man from the KGB soon realised just what value this burgeoning industry would be to his vast, developing country. The punishment for commercial piracy is now up to seven years in prison. A Russian prison. As disincentives go, it’s a good one.

With 300 people a year now jailed for software theft, piracy is rapidly disappearing quickly in the major cities of Russia. The Russian government have even managed to close some of the major torrent sites, and have published an anti-piracy guide to help retailers avoid getting burned by illegal distributors. It is a tough regime, but the Russian government know that they can’t allow crime to dominate their development: in gaming as much as anywhere else.

source

It's also worth remembering the driver manufacturers should take a lot of the blame for not getting their drivers out quick enough.

Or optimised fast enough. Nvidia's drivers for Vista were reportedly quite poor upon release, ATI's were further along. Thankfully that's definitely not the case any more. Drivers from both vendors well optimised for the OS at this point.

At first I turned off Instant Search but I've recently turned it back on and I like it. Being able to click the Start Menu button, typing EM and eMule loads is much quicker than going through the Start Menu. It has some oddities, why "not" gives me Windows Media Player is beyond me and I have to type notep to get notepad.

Oh yes, it's a lovely feature. It's just like OSX's Spotlight, one of the few things that I liked about that simpleton's OS.

Before installing Vista I came close to nuking the XP32 partition, I pretty much only use it once every months.

Why do you still have it?[/quote]I'll occasionally need to run an app or game that's not compatible with 64-bit OSes (eg updating my mouse's firmware). This is very rare, XP x64 has run practically everything that I've thrown at it.

2. My plan is to get Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit - I currently run Vista HP 32-Bit and may as well wait for Windows 7 to go 64-Bit BUT I want to make sure I have the drivers ready. I'll be using Vista drivers where needed.

Oh, absolutely go 64-bit. I have been running a x64 Windows since 2007 and have had hardly any trouble with it. A lot of people regarded XP x64 as rubbish, but that's definitely not the case. It's just like every other version of Windows, support became better over time. XP x64 was released in 2005, and the driver support was great by the time I came along in early '07.

So I'll have to go hunting for drivers. I have Wireless drivers and bet I can find the ones I need. I remember when installing 32-Bit from a proper OEM DVD I needed only a handful of the drivers on Toshiba website. Most of the crap I didn't need at all.

God, another reason why I hate laptops. They require very specific drivers. Then there's the fact that some suppliers won't honour your warranty if you don't the original OS installed. What a load of bollocks, what are they, fricking Macs?[/quote]

[bradavon]

Or optimised fast enough. Nvidia's drivers for Vista were reportedly quite poor upon release, ATI's were further along. Thankfully that's definitely not the case any more. Drivers from both vendors well optimised for the OS at this point.

And this should continue with Windows 7, seeing as Vista drivers should work just fine on Windows 7. Reports of Beta testers are confirming this, some have had to tick "Vista Compatibility" but otherwise they install fine.

Vista is v6 and Windows 7 v6.1, this is precisely to not cause another overload of application compatibility again (most software only checks the major version number and at Vista's launch they were all expecting v5).

Oh yes, it's a lovely feature. It's just like OSX's Spotlight, one of the few things that I liked about that simpleton's OS.

It also actually has no effect on performance. As soon as you even touch the mouse it turns itself completely off. It's significantly better than XP's Indexing and as Desktop Search is built into the OS it works much better than Windows Desktop Search does on XP.

Is MAC OS really that simpleton? You never hear a bad thing about it, which I find very dubious. There's loads you cannot do with it or tweak right? I cannot stand how the hardware is so locked down, a bit like laptops but at least with laptops you can see the logic behind it.

One of the big arguments for MAC OS, is it's possibly much simpler to use. I don't find Windows hard to use at all, maybe because I've got used to it but that's a mute point when I know how to use it. Yes Windows before Windows 2000 was unreliable but from Windows 2000 on, this was very much a thing of the past. I don't count Windows NT 4 or lower as they were so unuser friendly.

eg updating my mouse's firmware

I've never considered upgrading mouse (or keyboard) firmware. Does it make a difference?

Oh, absolutely go 64-bit. I have been running a x64 Windows since 2007 and have had hardly any trouble with it. A lot of people regarded XP x64 as rubbish, but that's definitely not the case.

Presuming I can find all the drivers (hence my test drive before release) I definitely will. It's about time I upgraded to 64-Bit. I'd be very surprised if I cannot track down all the drivers I need and coupled with the ones built into Windows 7, I reckon I'll be fine.

I understand Vista 64-Bit support is better than XP 64-Bit, as it's a requirement that manufacturers also provide Vista 64-Bit drivers. It kinda throws in the face of Toshiba's lacklustre support. I probably should've gone 64-Bit when I reinstalled Vista shortly after SP1 was released but now I'm up and running (using a proper Vista disc) I may as well wait for Windows 7.

As well as Wireless drivers I also have printer drivers. I plan to install Windows 7 on to another hard disk and only use it to play around with and test out driver support. I've no interest using it as my primary OS (it's Beta!). Anti-Malware support exists but is flaky for one.

God, another reason why I hate laptops. They require very specific drivers. Then there's the fact that some suppliers won't honour your warranty if you don't the original OS installed. What a load of bollocks, what are they, fricking Macs?

It is annoying but I do find laptops very useful. I can take my PC wherever I go and Desktop PCs really aren't necessary nowadays, unless you're into Gaming or heavy Photo Editing maybe.

I didn't know that about the warranty. I hope Toshiba don't pull that one. I'd always try and send mine back without the hard disk, if possible. I've replaced the hard disk, so I hope that doesn't happen. It was only £80 for a 3 year extended warranty (not much when I paid £600 for the laptop). It came with a 120Gb hard disk but that's now my backup drive and I have 320Gb. I had to get 5,400RPM (same as my 12Gb drive) as at the time the largest 2.5" model was only 200Gb.

[EvaUnit02]

Is MAC OS really that simpleton? You never hear a bad thing about it, which I find very dubious.

It's a total myth that OSX is completely reliable and never crashes. The times that I used OSX, it crashed more times than XP ever has in my years of using it. I've lost count of the times that I've been left with a frozen system with an indefinite spinning pinwheel (it's like the Windows hour glass cursor).
A quick google search gives me this:-
http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?sto ... 0003145313

It can be a nightmare for IT support professionals to diagnose Macs. OSX always gives you the same generic nondescript message that tells you absolutely nothing about what when wrong.

There's loads you cannot do with it or tweak right?I cannot stand how the hardware is so locked down, a bit like laptops but at least with laptops you can see the logic behind it.

Not really. Since it's based on Unix, you can compile some nice open source apps that would work on OSX, but that's where the tweaking ends unfortunately. Modern Windows (anything since '95) in any form can be fine-tuned to your liking to the minute detail. I love stuff like registry tweaks..

eg updating my mouse's firmware

I've never considered upgrading mouse (or keyboard) firmware. Does it make a difference?

[/quote]
Gamer mice have features like adjusting/cycling through different USB polling rates and varying levels of dpi with the press of the button. Gaming mice and keyboards often can often be programmed with complex key-macros that are executed with the push of a single button.

You can see why they would use firmware.

I didn't know that about the warranty. I hope Toshiba don't pull that one. I'd always try and send mine back without the hard disk, if possible. I've replaced the hard disk, so I hope that doesn't happen. It was only £80 for a 3 year extended warranty (not much when I paid £600 for the laptop). It came with a 120Gb hard disk but that's now my backup drive and I have 320Gb. I had to get 5,400RPM (same as my 12Gb drive) as at the time the largest 2.5" model was only 200Gb.

Some laptop manufacturers put a locked restore partition on their HDDs, featuring a static OS image that can be restored by the manufacturer's service staff.

[bradavon]

It's a total myth that OSX is completely reliable and never crashes.

I've thought that has to be a myth. How can a complex operating system never crash?

So in your opinion there really is nothing in it between MAC OS and Windows for reliability and ease of use?

Some laptop manufacturers put a locked restore partition on their HDDs, featuring a static OS image that can be restored by the manufacturer's service staff.

My Toshiba laptop had that. I reduced the size of it using Acronis Disk Director (it was only a few hundred megs of data but was 2-3Gb in size) and that managed to corrupt it (i.e - the system recovery menu no longer loaded). When I deleted my Windows partition when reinstalling Vista I also deleted that partition too. I don't really need it, seeing as I have a Vista DVD.

At least I was given a System Recovery CD with my laptop. A friend recently bought a Compaq laptop and they didn't even give him one. Talk about cheeky business practise to expect you to make your own. I'd never use mine but when I sell the laptop I will be using it.

[EvaUnit02]

I've been playing around with the gadget sidebar. Most of the gadgets that are out there have utterly redundant functionality for my habits, likely being counter-productive rather than the intended opposite effect.
Eg Search Google or Wikipedia, really? I'll just the quick search box from within Firefox, thank you very much.

The only one couple that I've found that might be useful is one called "Weather Show", which is far better than the supplied MS made one and a multicore CPU usage monitor (called "Quad Core Usage").

Now here's my problem, maybe you can help me here Brad. How do I get the Sidebar to always be showing when I go to my Desktop (ie with show desktop, Windows key + D), but not always be showing when I have any programs of windows or running programs maximised? (OSX's Expose more intuitive than the Vista's Sidebar, IMO.)

[romerojpg]

I have never found anything interesting on the Side bar yet, turned it off soon after getting Vista and never bothered again.

I can see why most people are sucked in by it, flashy useless crap to clutter a screen up

[bradavon]

I don't think it's possible sorry Eva. I agree it shouldn't minimize but by design "Show Desktop" does just that and minimizes the Sidebar too. The only way I know around it is to minimize each app one-by-one, obviously a pain.

Speaking of the "Show Desktop" function, the icon is gone in W7. I reckon they've removed it as there's a new feature called "Aero peak" which shows the desktop temporarily. It's pretty cool but no replacement for minimizing everything quickly. I forgot about Windows Key + D. I'll have to give that ago.

Speaking of the Windows Key it's been beefed up in W7 and now has stacks of new shortcut key commands. Windows key +1 for example opens the first docked program on the Super Bar (formely Task Bar) and so on.

I've tried to find use in the Side Bar too and every time I find it a complete gimmick and switch it off. You only see it when you have apps minimized and you cannot exactly use them in that manner.

I quite liked an Outlook one but it meant the Outlook data file was always locked open and made backing it up tricky. The weather one is quite neat but I tend to just go to the BBC website for that and besides holiday's aside I don't really need to know what the weather is daily. The RSS feed one is good but it's way too small to be of any use. The weather one is probably the most use but not really enough reason to run it alone.

Those search ones often tend to open IE too, regardless of what your default browser is.

In short = BIG gimmick.

On the other hand these are useful:

* Instant Search on Vista and W7 - Tweaked on W7 so typing "network" gives you lots more Network options for example
* Jump Lists on W7 - Menus Pop-out giving "Live" options depending what you've been to and what the app is (such as recent websites in IE)
* Super Bar on W7 - Quick Launch on Acid
* Aero Live Thumbnails on Vista but greatly enhanced on W7, particularly useful on Internet Explorer (moving over IE shows a thumbnail for each tab)

All are examples of why the Classic Start Menu is rubbish by comparison and why it's not in W7.

[Yi-Long]

These last few days, Vista is acting up on me. Lots of error-messages, and all that kinda crap. Not sure what's causing it, but I'm getting ALL kinds of error-boxes...

I'll try re-installing Vista this week. Just have to back-up the important programs first, which means I'll probably have to buy a new external HDD.

[bradavon]

What errors? Have you put them into google (word for word) with speech marks around them? Such as:

"error number 1234"

And see what comes back.

[Yi-Long]

They're many and they're very random. Also get the 'orange screen' at times when I start up, and even have had a few blue-screen crashes.

I'll try finding the windows-DVD, and try formatting and re-installing the whole thing this week, cause it's driving me crazy...

Kinda scared of doing so, because of the HDD's (2 500GB's) have been merged together, so I have a huge C-drive, plus a D-drive which has Windows on it... so not quite sure how to handle it all.

[bradavon]

It's best to concentrate on the first error and go from there, also what are you doing when said errors occur?

Just copy important stuff to D drive. Windows won't format that, unless you're dumb enough to manually do this during install. If you do re-install it's far, far better to re-format C drive and start again, as you say.

Of course if it's hardware related this may not fix it, it's best to be sure first.

[Yi-Long]

Like I said, the errors are all just random. It did some kind of check when I started up, then after using Inet for 2 minutes Vista blue-screened me again and restarted. After the restart, it gives me a message that MSN messenger isnt working anymore.
I know that when I restart my PC again, MSN will work again, but probably something else will 'not work'.

[bradavon]

You could try this:

1. Right click on "Command Prompt" (from the Start Menu --> Accessories)
2. Left click on "Run As Administrator"
3. Click on CONTINUE on the User Account Control prompt, if enabled/not set to silent mode
4. In the black command prompt type:

chkdsk c: /f /v /r /x

5. Press the Enter key
6. Press Y when asked to confirm and press Enter
7. Restart the PC

Check Disk should kick in and take about 30-45 minutes to complete. This may help or it may not but it's worth a shot. Without knowing the error (like I said the first one will be the important one, it's never random) I cannot advice further but then you didn't ask .

/f - Fixes errors on the disk
/v - On NTFS: Displays clean up messages if any
/r - Locates bad sectors and recovers readable information
/x - Forces the volume to dismount first if necessary

This will perform the Check Disk in it's most thorough form. When complete, Windows will load.

p.s - I presume you mean Windows Live Messenger? I don't think MSN Messenger is Vista compatible. I'm just checking, as we're talking technical.

[Yi-Long]

Thanks Brad.

Tried your chkdsk suggestion, took a couple of hours, so I went into the other room. I didnt get any 'report' afterwards, but the computer had just started up Vista again.

After not so long, Vista crashed out on me again, blue screen, so once again restarted, and still the same little error-messages pop up from time to time.

I guess I meant Windows Live Messenger. Not sure. I just clicked it away.

[bradavon]

Tried your chkdsk suggestion, took a couple of hours, so I went into the other room. I didnt get any 'report' afterwards, but the computer had just started up Vista again.

You don't, it just loads Windows or rather it does give some feedback but you cannot pause it, so it appears to quickly, pointless really.

It's useful for corrupt files/folders etc... You may have a folder in your C drive called:

found.001
found.002

And so on. These are files/folders Check Disk has restored. They're usually not much use though as Check Disk renames them, so it's pretty hard to work out what they are and if they have any relevance. I usually just delete them. Check Disk is a tool that needs updating.

It's worth running once in awhile to fix corrupt files/folders and other stuff like corrupt NTFS records.

After not so long, Vista crashed out on me again, blue screen, so once again restarted, and still the same little error-messages pop up from time to time.

The key here is what the blue screen is telling you. There will likely be an STOP error code such as:

0x0000000A

Paste this number into Google and it will tell you what is failing. It's worth establishing if it's hardware or software. The error code is usually at the bottom of the blue screen after all the "general rubbish" about calling Tech Support. Make sure you write it down "exactly".

You need to establish that before doing anything as drastic as re-installing Windows. If it's hardware, it could very well cash during installation, you'd then really be screwed.

[romerojpg]

Yup always good to have a handy camera sitting ready to snap the screen

[bradavon]

That is a good idea.

Annoyingly the important part is right at the end of BSODs (Blue Screen of Death), proper name "STOP Errors". Why they put all that crap before it is really anyone's guess.

It's obvious you need to call Tech Support by this point. Still it's always been this way, right back as far as Windows 3.1 (which was even less helpful). They do need to really upgrade a STOP error though. It could certainly be more helpful.

How long has the problem been happening? Have you run System Restore? What about Vista's Memory Checker? -

1. Press F8 during startup (reboot the PC and keep pressing F8, even if the keyboard beeps)
2. It's one of the options

This will at least tell you if you have duff memory. You need to find out what the STOP error is first though, as said previously .

[Yi-Long]

Some other guy at a another forum also suggested it might be the memory, so I did a memory check, and it tells me there's a hardware problem.

So now it's either a case of just making sure the memory is connected ok, or maybe I'll have to secure them a bit better and the problem might be solved, or it's a genuine problem with the memory-strips, and I'll have to call the manufacturer to replace them with working strips.

[bradavon]

It's definitely worth checking if they're seated properly. You can also try removing one of them (memory almost always works in pairs) and see if the problem goes away.

It could be one not both faulty. It should work fine with just one of the two chips, obviously maybe slower. How much RAM do you have?

You could open it and see if it's anything obvious then if need be make them change it. If it is faulty memory you're probably better off getting it changed then messing about removing it yourself. What Memory Test program did you use?

Duff memory causes all manner of things to crash, the errors will be all manner of things and almost always causes BSODs.

[Yi-Long]

I have 4 memory-strips, and I tried pushing them all in a bit further, to see if it would make a difference, but still has a problem.

Can't pull them out though, cause there's a huge graphics card in the way, and it would be a huge bother to take that out (I think), so I'll just call the dealer tomorrow, and I'm still well withing my guarentee-period, so hopefully some dude will just drop by and replace the faulty memory-strip(s) with (a) working one(s).

[bradavon]

4 memory chips in a desktop PC, is quite a lot. How much RAM do you have? It's normally 2.

Otherwise sounds good. Don't tell them you've opened the case. Say you ran the Vista memory program, even if you didn't. They cannot then say you ran unofficial software.