Arsenal through to Champions League final

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 18 May 2006, 10:14

grim_tales wrote:Gutted, proud of Arsenal though.
Getting to the final is still great. I still think you're being very harsh Yi, after all the manager has done!
they did not just sit on a one-nil lead, they did break and have chances (they should have finished them off though), but surely you should congratulate them for a solid defensive display with 10 men - did you not see Fabregas go off because he was clearly bushed. The likes of Ljungberg worked their arses off too, causing Barca trouble. If your team was 1-0 up with 15 mins left, how would you play???
As I say they did try to kill the game but were clearly knackered.

First of all, I've always given credit for the thing Wenger has done right. Always. But there are also some things he isnt good at, and that should also be possible to mention, right!?

If your team was 1-0 up with 15 mins left, how would you play???

They didnt start playing defensively for just the last 15 minutes. they started playing defensively as soon as they lost a man. I really explained my self as good as I could in the other thread at pesinsight (link provided in an earlier post), but basically, by going for a 4-4-1 formation, with keeping Freddy on the left wide side and Henry upfront by himself, the rest of the team all backing into their own goal-area to 'defend', it's no wonder they were dead-tired by the time Barca started pounding away. If you dont have the ball, you'll have to run to get it back: running will make you tired (which is why you should always try to keep possesion, and which is why defending for that long so close to your own goal, isnt a very smart thing to do, condition-wise)

This is the very very short version, and I deal with all the problems, positions, tactics etc, much better in the PESInsight thread, as there were people there with the same questions you might have...

But trust me, it's all very simple if you just think of the problem, what's causing the problem, and how could you solve the problem.

One of the problems was Henry not having any support, and Freddy being wasted on the right (and yeah he worked hard but that doesnt equal good play). By simply switching to a 4-3-2, where the 2 forwards play behind eachother instead of alongside eachother, you are defensively still safe, yet you hold a bigger threat offensively, PLUS obviously it's harder for the Barca defence to come forward. Rijkaard did see the problems and made the right changes and substitutions. Wenger didnt.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 18 May 2006, 10:29

I still think Arsenal did their best, they gave away the goals because they were very tired.

I'm sorry but I disagree, how can we play our "normal" game (ie attack, attack) when we've lost a man, especially the man that has won CL matches for us, against a team like Barca? You can't.
I agree BTW the ref made bad decisions for both teams (Eboue's dive, giving cards for legit tackles etc).

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 18 May 2006, 10:46

grim_tales wrote:I still think Arsenal did their best, they gave away the goals because they were very tired.
I agree BTW the ref made bad decisions for both teams (Eboue's dive, giving cards for legit tackles etc).

I agree they gave away the goals because they were tired, so think about WHY they were so tired. It's not just because they had a man less, as Wenger took off an offensive midfielder (Pires).
It's because both Freddy and Henry were both wasted, as Henry didnt have any support... so Barca didnt just have 1 man more, but 2-3 men more.

Plus they kept giving the ball away to Barca, so when Barca have the ball and pass it around, the Arsenal players would have to run and run to get it back. Just to give it away again, cause henry couldnt be reached, and they played with their backs in their own goal area. It's very simple.

Tactical mistake by Wenger and Arsenal.

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 18 May 2006, 11:03

it's any team's natural instinct to defend when down to ten men,even more so when you sneak a 1-0 lead

bit different if you are already behind though,you have nothing to lose.arsenal HAD something to defend.and if they sat back that much,how come henry missed 2 glorious chances?

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 18 May 2006, 11:18

Agree. They really did the best they could and TBH against Barca any team would defend like Arsenal did if they were ahead and down to 10 men! Which they did a bloody good job of for 60-ish minutes IMO.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 18 May 2006, 11:25

saltysam wrote:it's any team's natural instinct to defend when down to ten men,even more so when you sneak a 1-0 lead bit different if you are already behind though,you have nothing to lose.arsenal HAD something to defend.and if they sat back that much,how come henry missed 2 glorious chances?

Ofcourse. I'm not questioning their decision the defend and secure that 1-0 lead. i'm questioning their tactics on how they did just that. there are different ways to defending other then just all moving your ass in the own goal area and hoping barca doesnt score. You can defend a 1-0 lead by KEEPING possesion, spreading the ball around, and looking for the counter. however, with only Henry upfront, barca had very little to fear from the counter, as Arsenal couldnt reach him, thus resulting in more Barca players being able to come forward, thus being able to cause more of a threat. Bringing in Iniesta to specifically make use of that space behind Henry was a very good tactical movie by Rijkaard.

BTW: Bergkamp hinted he might have been interested in taking part in the upcoming WC, although he immediately said it wouldnt be fair to any of the other players in the squad. It's just a normal hunger for a pleasant 'goodbye'.

Here's hoping Vennegoor of Hesselink, or Dirk Kuytt, will get injured

I can dream, can I!? I feel so very bad that one of the best players ever, didnt get the last season he deserved, because despite his age, he still looked very fit and sharp. Too bad just see the 37 number, instead of looking past that to the actual form.

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 18 May 2006, 11:37

wenger defended for 2 hours in last season's cup final and won despite being the inferior team. perhaps this was on his mind plus the fact they hadn't let a goal in for ten CL games must have gave him confidence.tbh barca didn't look like scoring until they did and then the first was possibly offside and thee goalie should have done better on both.

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 18 May 2006, 11:39

i feel really sorry for you arsenal fans,i've seen my side win the euro cup 5 times and the feeling of being champions of europe is fantastic.i was hoping you guys could experience it,sadly not to be this season.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 18 May 2006, 11:41

I think Henry will stay now, what he said after the game pretty much closed the door on a move IMO.
Arsenal will be back next season.

To make the final is a great achievement, we were 14 mins away from winning it.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 18 May 2006, 12:26

I agree about the 2005 FA Cup final BTW Salty

Thanks for the condolances

I'm sure Arsenal will be back but it took so long to get where we are

Also I read on Ceefax that the referee said he regretted the red card given to Lehmann and if he had a few more secs to think he would have given him a yellow and let the goal stand. I thought the sending off was fair enough, the Barca player was denied a clear goal-scoring chance by Lehmann so he has to be sent off IMO. If the goal had stood, you cant say he denied a chance so he has to stay on.
Almunia was good for most of the game I think.

brooce-leroy · Post by **brooce-leroy** » 18 May 2006, 13:25

Arsenal blew it by not getting a 2nd goal with 3 great opportunities before Eto'o levelled. Yes it was offside, but Eboue dived so it evens out IMO. I wanted Arsenal to cling on to win it.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 18 May 2006, 13:31

True Henry should of scored - twice, to close the game.