Argento's Suspiria

[bradavon]

Let me guess; you hate The Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Dawn of the Dead, too?

TTCM isn't even a film it's so bad. It's a dress rehearsal they couldn't be bothered to do properly. Come on that's not acting. I wouldn't be surprised if they're all reading from a cue sheet.

I've not seen Dawn of the Dead but will be picking up the BD when I can play them. I may just like it. Halloween surprised me.

Brad, you do realise that for several decades the majority of Italian films were made without sync-sound? Mainly because it was impractical/uneconomical. Even arthouse ones, Fellini loved making up dialogue after the fact.

I've no problem with that, it was Mark who put that bit in.

Even today actors go back later to add their voices in when it didn't sound correct originally. I forget what it's called.

They don't need to dub over though or choose actors that cannot speak English properly. That's what I meant about Engrish. It has been awhile since I've seen Suspira so maybe it's not as bad as I remember. I don't remember the film being particularly memorable though.

For me there simply aren't that many decent horror films. The Shining is a good example of one. As is Ringu.

Likewise Hong Kong companies have been doing the same.

That annoyed me to, especially when it was blatantly obvious that wasn't the actors real voice. Come one! The upside then being I cannot speak Chinese so didn't usually notice it.

[EvaUnit02]

Even today actors go back later to add their voices in when it didn't sound correct originally. I forget what it's called

ADR'ing.

[bradavon]

That's it, thanks.

[Markgway]

My point was that the lead actors in Suspiria dubbed their own English lines so it has nothing to do with casting the right actors. Brad, at least get your facts right before slagging something off.

And while we're at it: Hung Fist why do you watch Suspiria in Italian? You never explained that one.

[HungFist]

I originally saw it in Italian (the scandinavian dvd I rented didn't have english option) and when I later tried the english track I didn't like it at all. Besides, I feel more comfortable with the characters speaking italian anyway since the film is set in Europe. Thankfully I was not familiar with the lead actress from before so I didn't have problems with her being dubbed in italian.

I do watch Phenomena in english only, though. Wouldn't switch to italian even if I had a chance (since we have two american actors that I am very familiar with doing their own voices).

Jessica Harper also looks much more like someone who could speak italian than the 15 year old Jennifer Connelly

But yeah, I know, to some extent this is a thing that makes sense in my head only. I don't have any objections for someone thinking the film should be viewed in english.

[bradavon]

My point was that the lead actors in Suspiria dubbed their own English lines so it has nothing to do with casting the right actors. Brad, at least get your facts right before slagging something off.

I did??? The acting is awful.

[Markgway]

Besides, I feel more comfortable with the characters speaking italian anyway since the film is set in Europe.

It's not even set in Italy.

Might as well be dubbed in fucking German?

It's an English language film. Fact. The actors spoke English on set and that was the intended language for the film to be seen in. The Italian dub was prepared exclusively for local audiences to appeal to Argento's local fanbase.

To say the movie is better in Italian is purely pretentious... but you're not alone. There are many language snobs out there who ignorantly think they're being cool by watching the movie in gen-u-wine I-talian with subtitles 'n' shit.

It would be the same as watching A Fistful of Dollars in Italian. You wouldn't do that would you?

FTR: Argento has never made an Italian language giallo/horror.

Thankfully I was not familiar with the lead actress from before so I didn't have problems with her being dubbed in italian.

Jessica Harper and Joan Bennett are both Americans, Allida Valli is Italian, I think, but had acted in English language movies for decades. They all dub their own voices in English.

Wouldn't switch to italian even if I had a chance (since we have two american actors that I am very familiar with doing their own voices).

So it's purely a matter of familiarity? Trust me once you watch Suspiria in English with the actor's real voices you'll find it hard to watch it dubbed in Italian. I tried to watch Bird With the Crystal Plumage and Cat O Nine Tails in Italian but couldn't.

Jessica Harper also looks much more like someone who could speak italian than the 15 year old Jennifer Connelly

Lol, now that's just being silly.

But yeah, I know, to some extent this is a thing that makes sense in my head only.

8)

[Markgway]

I did??? The acting is awful.

So now it's the acting??

I though it was the "Engrish"?


Brad, you're dribbling again..........

[bradavon]

So now it's the acting??

I though it was the "Engrish"?

The quality of the speech is part of being able to act

The actors spoke English on set.

Aren't the actor Italian? If so why would they speak English on set.

[HungFist]

@Mark

lol, you having a problem with what language I choose when I'm watching the movie. As I said, the horrible english track doesn't interest me. You and everyone else can watch it in english all you want. You don't even have to read subtitles then

[Markgway]

The quality of the speech is part of being able to act

There's nothing wrong with the quality of speech. You're just making this shit up. If you don't like the film fair enough... but don't give bogus reasons for it. Just say I thought it was a crap story or something...

Aren't the actor Italian? If so why would they speak English on set.

Many of the supporting cast were Italian, but as I said, the film was intended to be English, which is why, where possible, Argento would have these actors speak English.

[Markgway]

@Mark lol, you having a problem with what language I choose when I'm watching the movie. As I said, the horrible english track doesn't interest me. You and everyone else can watch it in english all you want. You don't even have to read subtitles then

That's a pretty lame response as you didn't even bother answering any of my valid points. Watch the movie in Italian for all I care. Watch it in Russian. Makes no diff to me. I'm just pointing out that your reasons for doing so are stupid and pretentious. If I said I love watching Jackie Chan movies but only in Italian you'd think I was an idiot -- and you'd be right.

[Shingster]

FTR: Argento has never made an Italian language giallo/horror.

Ooh I've got to challenge that statement, I'm pretty sure that Suspiria was Argento's first film that was intended to be shown in English only. From Bird with the Crystal Plumage to Profondo Rosso he was making films primarily for the Italian market, the fact that they tended to have English speaking protagonists does not justify the "English was the original language" argument at all imo, as foreign protagonists were a pre-established staple element of Gialli - not to mention making the films more appealing to a foreign audience.

[HungFist]

If I said I love watching Jackie Chan movies but only in Italian you'd think I was an idiot -- and you'd be right.

Above average insult. I like that

I didn't answer your questions because I thought I had already more or less aswered them before.

- Having seen the film first in Italian and that being my original experience
- Not liking the english voice acting
- Liking the italian voice acting
- Not being distracted by the american actors speaking Italian
- Thinking that an Italian film set in Germany (?) makes slightly more sense dubbed in Italian than English
- And above all, never claiming that Italian would be the correct language by general standards. I though I made it pretty clear that the whole issue is something that makes sense in my head but I don't expect others to agree, nor do I think there is anything wrong with watching the film in english, or italian being the correct language by general standards.

Besides, I do respect some people's decision to rather watch Wheels on Meals with the english dub and alternate score if that's what they're used to, rather than the intended cantonese. There's even one HK film I myself watch in wrong language, which is The Killer. There's no canto version of the longer cut, and I find the short (woo preferred) cut so far inferior that wouldn't even consider watching it.

[Markgway]

Ooh I've got to challenge that statement, I'm pretty sure that Suspiria was Argento's first film that was intended to be shown in English only. From Bird with the Crystal Plumage to Profondo Rosso he was making films primarily for the Italian market, the fact that they tended to have English speaking protagonists does not justify the "English was the original language" argument at all imo, as foreign protagonists were a pre-established staple element of Gialli - not to mention making the films more appealing to a foreign audience.

Suspiria was probably the first one to get anything like a mainstrem international release, but all of his thrillers were intended to be English language, including Crystal Plumage. Much of Italian genre cinema (ie. spaghetti westerns) were released in Italy dubbed into Italian, but the spoken language was English, with an eye on the solid export market. Unlike many countries Italy was always aware of the importance of English in a film's success in foreign territories, and getting a couple of name stars as leads was the icing on the cake. I'm not saying EVERY single actor spoke English, as I'm sure a few couldn't but were chosen regardless because of their suitability to the role (ie. Carlo's Mother in Deep Red, sorry can't recall the actress' name). But if you check out the lip sync you can see that most of supporting cast were speaking English. Shooting silent gave Argento the opportunity to dub using accentless voices -- or should I say voices with "fake" local accents that were clearer. Anyone who doubts what I'm saying need only buy a DVD of any of these films and flip between the audio tracks for proof. Trivia note: in Tenebre Daria Nicolodi was redubbed by Theresa Russell. Nicolodi speaks good English, but with an accent.

[Markgway]

Having seen the film first in Italian and that being my original experience

I first saw all Bruce Lee films dubbed in English, wouldn't watch them in anything other than Mandarin now. People change, mate, and they learn.

Not liking the english voice acting

So you'd rather listen to an Italian dubbing David Hemmings? It's your perogative, just seems strange to me.

Liking the italian voice acting

You speak Italian? I don't, so I've no idea if it's any good.

Not being distracted by the american actors speaking Italian

Sure as hell distracts me.

Thinking that an Italian film set in Germany (?) makes slightly more sense dubbed in Italian than English

Don't look at me... I didn't choose English, lol!

I though I made it pretty clear that the whole issue is something that makes sense in my head but I don't expect others to agree

And I said fair enough... I'm just explaining why I disagree. Feel free to ignore my views.

or italian being the correct language by general standards.

Italian isn't the correct language by any standards.

Besides, I do respect some people's decision to rather watch Wheels on Meals with the english dub and alternate score if that's what they're used to, rather than the intended cantonese.

Lol, I love that disco music.

The WHEELS English dub is admittedly good, but if I had to choose one language it would be Cantonese.

There's even one HK film I myself watch in wrong language, which is The Killer. There's no canto version of the longer cut, and I find the short (woo preferred) cut so far inferior that wouldn't even consider watching it.

That's a little different since you're favourite cut isn't available in the correct language. There's not a lot you can do about that.

[HungFist]

Wild Side's new HD mastered 3 disc release is coming in December. It's no use to anyone but me though as they've only included Italian and French tracks.

Not that I'd be buying it either. As I said I'm very happy with the AB disc, so screw the French.

Nice trailer, too (not the same as on the wild side website):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7UhtZ2IEs4

[dvdvision]

Not sure if the wild side will not be an exact replica of the AB transfert. Will check it out.

[saltysam]

italian "remaster" article here

http://whiggles.landofwhimsy.com/archiv ... andit.html

[saltysam]

Weinsteins now have the rights in the usa

http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout ... 65704&cs=1

[Markgway]

Yikes. That's some funky "remastering".

[EvaUnit02]

italian "remaster" article here

http://whiggles.landofwhimsy.com/archiv ... andit.html

IF brad was to buy a copy of Suspiria, undoubtedly that remaster would be the version for him.

[grim_tales]

Yikes. The contrast in that remaster is turned up so high rendering the colours so different (in some cases the screen is bright yellow). In one of the shots it almost seems bright red!

[HungFist]

italian "remaster" article here

http://whiggles.landofwhimsy.com/archiv ... andit.html

IF brad was to buy a copy of Suspiria, undoubtedly that remaster would be the version for him.

He probably thinks they're both a mess, but the new remaster looks better, just

[HungFist]

Russian synchronized swimming champs bring Suspiria to the Olympics
- http://www.avclub.com/articles/russian- ... iri,83434/