Bullets 'n' Babes

If that makes me a "sad freak" then good for you, you progressed.

Why not go and start another thread about how badly Iraq is treated by us evil people over seas, and forget about the fact that us overseas people dont even come close to the evil genocide they do to themselves on a daily basis with no help at all from outsiders.

If someone slaps you you just have to slap them back somehow in this world dont you?

If you are going to name call, go ahead. As I am sure it may hurt you when people call you names, but I dont care.


Africa is one of the single most evil places on earth. I have been going on about it for years and most people on here ignore it, but somehow Iraq is cared for 1000 times more when such a small amount of people are killed compared to over in Africa, if its figures that make it more evil then Africa wins hands down. Yet most people dont ge a shit at all.

romerojpg wrote:Africa is one of the single most evil places on earth. I have been going on about it for years and most people on here ignore it, but somehow Iraq is cared for 1000 times more when such a small amount of people are killed compared to over in Africa, if its figures that make it more evil then Africa wins hands down. Yet most people dont ge a shit at all.

Hell yes. Something is seriously wrong with Africans. Every other race has managed to pull themselves out of the gutter, but Africans just haven't been able to. Regular civil wars, coups every other year, seemingly a genocide every decade... why is it only them?

romerojpg wrote:
If someone slaps you you just have to slap them back somehow in this world dont you?

Which is what Al Qaida did at 9/11.

Well they were exploited more than any other race sadly, and still are now by BIG companies! Simple reall.

If the Big companies were forced out the country could sustain itself, as it is one hell of a rich place (more precious metals than any other coutry), but not once the BIG companies exploit the workers, pay them pennies and steal all the loot to ship it overseas.

Yi-Long wrote:

romerojpg wrote:
If someone slaps you you just have to slap them back somehow in this world dont you?

Which is what Al Qaida did at 9/11.

Exacxtly! you DONT DO IT! if someone kills your friend, do you run out and kill the killer? then their friend kills your friend etc... forever.. never ending circle of death. Until noone is left to fight.

romerojpg wrote:

Yi-Long wrote:

romerojpg wrote:
If someone slaps you you just have to slap them back somehow in this world dont you?

Which is what Al Qaida did at 9/11.

Exacxtly! you DONT DO IT! if someone kills your friend, do you run out and kill the killer? then their friend kills your friend etc... forever.. never ending circle of death. Until noone is left to fight.

I know. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind...

Yet it's understandable to want revenge. It's natural. It doesnt make it right. But you have to fight injustice one way or the other. if there's no legal way, some will seek an illegal way to satisfy their lust for revenge. for some, revenge is all they have left.

And btw, yes I would go out and kill the person who would kill my girlfriend.

I strongly disagree with Al Qaida targeting innocent people. And all those responsible should be punished or killed or whatever. However, 9/11 was a reaction by Al Qaida to 'the west's' actions.
The USA (and later the UK) brought this on themselfs.

I do agree on that point a lot, if the person is guilty then go ahead and punish them, not the innocents. George Bush, Tont Blair and the people up top moving the pieces they can kill, but people in the street thousands of miles away I think is not on.

You mean you would "want" to kill the person who killed your Girlfriend, the thing is most normal people couldnt kill and wouldnt want to spend the rest of their lives in prison (or worse, death) as we have morals, we want to kill, but our lives say dont. I would want to kill some people if they killed my family, but doing it I imagine is a whole other thing.

It's worth pointing out that Al Queda aren't exclusively acting as reactionaries to western interference in the Middle East, but are actually a pro-Muslim movement designed to bring about the fall of western values and culture by any means necessary. That's not to say America doesn't bear blame for Middle Eastern crisis, merely that 9/11 was symptomatic of something far wider reaching than a simple act of vengeance. To put AQ down simply as avengers grossly underestimates their true terrorist cause.

I just think seeing World Trade Center will either get to you, or it will wash over you.

I think it will get to me (along with the many other films about the subject). It just gets to me that this was 5 years ago and still the world is on the brink of destruction (if we are beleve the things that are going on).

Al Queda for me isnt the focus of the anger I have, as too many band wagon jumpers seem to have spepped up since 9/11. My anger gets aimed at anyone suporting the whole lets kill to get back at america, and now the UK also.

I expect a film will be made about the events in the UK latley, innocent killings, well lets not even try to stop these terrorist killing then and lets just ingore them and let them blow up the whole UK. I would rather the UK make a few mistakes trying to catch them, then sit back and ignore every report. I wouldnt be saying that if my friends or family were killed mind you, but shit does indeed happen and really it could happen to any of us. We dont run the government and have no control over it.

In Iron Fisted Monk when a Manchu guy rapes a characters sister, the guy doesnt know who did it but he decides to kill all the Manchus, even if he doesnt know who's guilty, because Manchu's are the "enemies" or "bad guys" in the film.
Is it just (right/fair) to commit an attack on INNOCENT people who had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with supposed "crimes"?

No it bloody isn't. Which is what Al-Qaeda did on 9/11 and 7/7.

What they did cannot be justified in any way AT ALL. They are not freedom fighters.

If it is an act of "revenge" (as Mark said its probably deeper), go after the person responsible, not innocent people!

grim_tales wrote:In Iron Fisted Monk when a Manchu guy rapes a characters sister, the guy doesnt know who did it but he decides to kill all the Manchus, even if he doesnt know who's guilty, because Manchu's are the "enemies" or "bad guys" in the film.
Is it just (right/fair) to commit an attack on INNOCENT people who had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with supposed "crimes"?

No it bloody isn't. Which is what Al-Qaeda did on 9/11 and 7/7.

What they did cannot be justified in any way AT ALL. They are not freedom fighters.

If it is an act of "revenge" (as Mark said its probably deeper), go after the person responsible, not innocent people!

Well duh... everyone agrees that Al Qaida is quilty of extremely severe crimes, as in murdering innocent people. That's not the issue, is it?

9/11 and 7/7 are still reactions to our own actions. We don't agree with the reaction, obviously, but for them our actions against them, are a legit reason to target innocent civilians. Besides, how can Al Qaida possibly attack those directly responsible? They can't. They wont be able to come close enough. They tried at 9/11 with intending to fly one of the planes into the white house or whatever, but that one failed.

This approach, FOR THEM, is the best way to fight the west (in THEIR minds)
And it's working. The west is learning more and more about how 'we' have treated the arabic world in the past, because we wanna KNOW what is motivating these extremists, what their motivations are, etc etc.

Would anyone (in the west) care about the Palestinians, if they werent in the news every day? What if they just kept tolerating Israel's shit, turning their cheek each and every time, without slapping back? Then we wouldnt even KNOW what's going on with the Palestinians.
Now they blow up a bus with Israeli school children, and the whole world looks up and go: why the fuck would they do a thing like that???
And now everyone is doing their best for the palestinian cause cause many now also realise that Israel has been surpressing the palestinian people for decades...
So terrorrisme isnt JUST a way to get revenge, but also a way to MAKE people take note of what the hell is happening.

Palestine/Israel have both been causing shit and been surpressing each other, no? In Israel/Palestine's mind, they think the other is "wrong".
I know what you mean/are trying to say but TBH I'm not sure I WANT to know what Al-Qaeda's motivations are. I dont want to sit down and have tea and scones.
Sorry for arguing, I'll shut up now

grim_tales wrote:I dont want to sit down and have tea and scones.

LOL! I'll have to agree with Yi on that one when he said a year ago or so that he'd rather drink a cup of tea with OBL than with Bush (from an intellectual pov).

Fair enough, I wouldnt want to have tea with Bush, he's an idiot

grim_tales wrote:Is it just (right/fair) to commit an attack on INNOCENT people who had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with supposed "crimes"?

Supposed crimes? Why supposed and why the connotations? Crimes are seldomly regarded as crimes by those who committed them. Especially not by terrorists and the US government.

No it bloody isn't. Which is what Al-Qaeda did on 9/11 and 7/7.

What they did cannot be justified in any way AT ALL.

Was the killing of innocent people ever justifiable?

Certainly not LD, of course its not justifiable. I'm just having a hard time looking into any "reasoning".

grim_tales wrote:Certainly not LD, of course its not justifiable.

So you agree with me that the deaths of thousands innocent people who fell victim to US and British millitary attacks are not justifiable, even if the "fell" for war on terror.

grim_tales wrote:Certainly not LD, of course its not justifiable. I'm just having a hard time looking into any "reasoning".

it's because 'we' like to think we're civilised, and think about a perfect world where everyone is rational and civil. Plus we think without emotion, but in real situations there is real emotion.

Romero said:

You mean you would "want" to kill the person who killed your Girlfriend, the thing is most normal people couldnt kill and wouldnt want to spend the rest of their lives in prison (or worse, death) as we have morals, we want to kill, but our lives say dont. I would want to kill some people if they killed my family, but doing it I imagine is a whole other thing.

That's what I mean. Romero is still think rational, about how shit it would be to go to jail. For me, if my girlfriend is killed, it's the end of my life. Simple. The guy who killed her, also killed my future, and me. Only I'm still in the position to at least get revenge, which at that point would be the ONLY thing left in my life.

if a palestinian guy loses his whole family because Israel decides to bomb a housing-block, that guy aint gonna care about going to prison anymore. Plus he'll think all Israelis are the same...(evil).

The documentary about the Moscow Opera hostage situation brought forward the same thing. There were women among the hostage takers who had lost their families, and this revenge was all they lived for.

It all doesnt make it right, and some people can't imagine how deep sadness and hate and anger can bring a person to committing these actions... but it just does.

9/11 and 7/7 and the madrid bombings were all cold-blooded murders, commited by evil people. But most of them werent BORN evil: some things
changes people, be it misinterpreting religion, be it someone bombing your house, be it someone bullying you, or whatever... it usually has a cause. that doesnt mean that excuses the person, but as a society we need to make sure we dont create more of those people by unnecesarily hurting them or harming them when they're still good people...

thelostdragon wrote:

grim_tales wrote:Certainly not LD, of course its not justifiable.

So you agree with me that the deaths of thousands innocent people who fell victim to US and British millitary attacks are not justifiable, even if the "fell" for war on terror.

Of course they aren't. But one of them is a deliberate terrorist act.

The bombing of house blocks are deliberate acts as well. You can call these acts military operations, but in the end they are spreading fear and death among the population like terrorism does. The only difference is those people who are attacked by military at war are in constant fear, as war usually doesn't last as long as a series of assaults by "self-employed" people. The fear of being attacked is seemingly everlasting in war regions like in say Iraq. Are you afraid to walk through London, even after the attacks on the tubes? Hell, even my little brother went on a student exchange there 2 weeks after the bombings. Would they do a student exchange to Baghdad, though? I doubt it.

Fair enough, good point (the whole post).
I don't often go to London (I live in St. Albans not London), but I was very afraid for the safety of some of my relatives who lived in the area where the tubes were bombed after it happened and after 7/7.

Well, I'm claustrophobic, so I never liked the tubes even BEFORE 7/7.