Bullets 'n' Babes

As most of you already know (since I've brought it up multiple times during the last few years) I'm planning on leaving this hellhole we call Holland in the (hopefully near) future.

Reasons are an increased racism, and just prices and taxes that are wayyyy to high, plus I just don't feel comfortable in a country that's run by right-wing morons that is actively destroying social security.

However, I have some question about emigration, about where I could go, should go, etc etc.

My first option would be Japan, simply cause I've been there and thought it was wonderfull. Problems could be the high cost of living, I dont speak the language, and at the moment there are too many old people so everyone has to work really really hard. A collegue of mine that they do welcome Dutch/western graphic designers in Japan... so if I can land a good job there, I'm sure it would be fine, plus I could teach english (I think, I hope) in my spare time if that should be neccesary...
An other problem with japan could eb that my girl is chinese, and I'm not sure how those relations (japan-china) would work in everyday japan.

Other option would be HK, but again I dont speak the language, cost of living is way too high, especially housing (food and public transportation, as well as taxes, are dirt-cheap though)

Thirdly canada seems a good option, good housing and pretty racism-free environment. Too bad about the rabbid pinguings roaming the countryside. But apparently they welcome grahic designers (which isnt a big surprise, consideren the awfull coverart for most region 1 dvd's) so it couldbe a very nice place to grow up. Especially with the houses being relatively big and free compared to european/dutch houses.
Good place to raise kids I feel.

Any other suggestions of places to live?

Also, has anyone here lived in a foreign country for some time!? Do any of you guys consider emigrating!?
When I look for emigration, do I need to focus on a job first, housing second, or vice versa?

well i too have been investigating the posibility of emigrating so can give you lots of second hand info

Canada - the place i most wanted to move.... until the recent elections occured, they now have a right wing nationalist government and although they havent changed or done anything yet George bush seems to have a big grin on his face whenever the new government is mentioned... Beyond the government though it does look like a lovely place, plenty of space, the populace seem agreeable. Its also worth noting their agency for dealing with people thinking of emmigrating are very friendly and helpful people.

Japan - tokyo by all accounts rock. westerners tend to be popular there just like us brits with our fiunny accents tend to go down well in the US. public crime is very low, but they really have no concept of charity, if you are big on morals you might have issues on how they treat each other (apart from their families, families are everything). By all accounts their idea of a working day in bigger organisations is pretty crazy too, loads of team building n stuff.

Hong Kong i dont really know anything about as i havent researched it and know noone who has lived there in the past 20 years.

Iceland - Ive wanted to live in iceland for sooooo long now..... no bugs, half the years its almost constantly light, half the year almost constantly dark, booze costs loads, suicide rate is 3rd highest in the world (or at least was last time I checked back in 2004). everything costs lots except housing and taxes which cost sod all. Damon alburn lives there.

New Zealand - along with canada the place i was seriously looking to emigrate to. lovely scenary, life is very laid back. there is a fair amount of racism im afraid towards the indiginous population. As a graphic designer you would be welcomed with open arms. they are about 5 years behind europe in terms of web design for some reason. The cost of living isnt bad, but its just generall the atmosphere its worth going for.



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now onto the essentials of emmigrating -

1. unless you are very very lucky you will be going without a job on a working visa for between 6 months and a year (depending on where exactly it is youre going). The idea is to try and find work whilst you are out there, you need to be in steady fullitime employment by the end of this time to stand a chance of getting another year on your working visa. newzealand and canada actually have organisations to help you find suitable work, japan if you dont know anyone and dont speak the language you are pretty screwed.

2. accomodation. at the start you just get any old cheap shitty lodgings that dont tie you into a contract and are good for public trasport. Once you have found a steady job and have passed a trial period then you start looking for better digs. always rememebr that you are not gaurenteed an extension onto your work permit so never sign any contract that takes you beyond your permit date.

3. working visas and citizenship - in nearly all countrys you will get an intitial working visa as long as you qualify (things like not having debt, having a skill etc). this will last for between 6 months and a year depending on where you go. After that year you have to apply again, depending on where you are you will have to repeat this process year after year until you qualify to become a citizen. if you have the right job (though i dont htink you do for any of the countries you mentioned) this whole process is fasttracked, i believe if you know the right computer systems and have commercial experience its possible to become a citizen of new zealand in under 2 years.



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finally.... what skills does your girlfriend have and does she really want to move to an entirely different country?


good luck!!

Thanks Mordib, that post was very helpfull and informative. It's kinda daunting, all the stuf that goes into emigrating.

As far as computerprograms athat I know, I mainly know InDesign (for making magazines), Photoshop and Illustrator (a lil bit). I also know Quark as I used it for a bout a year in my internship.
I don't know shit about Webdesign. I was thinking about making my own website when I got a little more time, and perhaps ask for help from LD and MPM (Cityonfire.com) as they have lots of experience with it... but for now I'm still too busy with school.
The problem could be that I'm not sure yet if I want to get into graphic design. I'm kinda tempted to go into writing reviews and articles about movies, and taking a bit more active role in the whole anti-cut movement... or perhaps writing for movies and possibly go after a carreer of eventually directing... except that path is nearly impossible here in Holland, as there arent many investors, and those that are there, only want people from filmschools, which are very hard to get in.
Plus due to recent health-issues I would prefer a job working from home.

About my girlfriend. We've been together for over 5 years now, and she's always known about my dislike/hate for this country (Holland) and that I was planning to move ASAP (meaning after I get a diploma). At first she seemed to be ok with that, but recently she has expressed fears about leaving her friends and family behind. I dont know how it will turn out. It's kinda difficult at the moment as she's still too emotional about a possible split, so I'm just trying to convince her with logical arguments. But if she doesnt want to go, I'm not gonna force her, obviously. But I personally DO wanna leave, so not sure how that will work out.

What do you mean about debts!? Because I do have a debt, but it's to the goverment for going to school. Couldnt I just pay it from my ew location, or wont they let me in!? I would prefer faking my own death and then starting a new life under a new name, but that seems a bit complicated.


canada: too bad about those recent elections. Didnt know the current candadians were feeling right-wingist... That's a shame. We'll see how that will develop.

Tokyo: I've heard good things about it, but I guess I would prefer not living in the big city, but rather choose for a suburb, or a lil town outside a big city... and preferably Kyoto, as it's a bit more traditional.
I'm not really planning on working & stressing my ass off. I just wanna make a living and enjoy life.

HK: I've been there twice now, and both times the public transportation (cheap and very very good) really pleasantly surprised me. Apparently HK people only pay 10% taxes, healthcare is pretty cheap (cheap insurance) and food and groceries are cheap.
Sadly, housing is VERY expensive and small, and the paychecks arent as big as they are in Holland. Plus obviously I dont speak the language.

Iceland: Hmmm... the only positive thing I've heard about it is that there are considerably more women then men over there, but seeing as I'm already taken, that wouldnt be a good reason to move there...
The high price of booze doesnt concern me, as I dont drink any alcohol...
But I've never really thought about moving there and seeing as I'm not a big fan of cold, wet places, I'd doubt I'd ever go there, let alone move there

New Zealand (famous for misspelling Sea): Thought about it... just like I thought about Australia... but the current ridiculous censorship-laws, as well as the current racism attacks (AU), has made me delete that option. I wanna be able to play Grand Theft Auto and Ninja Gaiden 2 etc etc, without fears of being arrested, or whatever.

Hell, who knows, it might turn out we'll just move to Germany or belgium or whatever Germany has Puffreiss and cheap DVD-Rs, Belgium has lower taxes, cheap public transportation, etc etc.
Both wouldnt be my first choice, obviously... but who knows!?

England wouldnt be an option though... too expensive, and the whole culture doesnt really seem like my cup of tea... plus the weather sucks.

About my girlfriends qualities: She's got a pretty high degree in Economy, plus she knows 2-3 languages (Dutch, Chinese, and a bit of English, though not as good as me)
Her preferred location would be HK because she has family there, but she doesnt want to help out with me finding a job and place to stay etc, while it would be much easier for us if she did (she is a HK citizen, plus with her diploma she could get a job (and paycheck) with a western bank, which would also provide us with an appartment, cause many western companies take care of that for their employees). But she doesnt wanna do that as she might prefer going into the import-export business, and not work for a bank... so I cant really expect any help from her. Ah well...

Too much writing in this one for me to read in the time I've got in this internet cafe, but I'd certainly entertain the prospect of New Zealand.

I've been here for just over 4 months now and i'm loving it! If i didn't have a girlfriend back home I'd be well up for staying here longer. Great place!!

degeneration wrote:Too much writing in this one for me to read in the time I've got in this internet cafe, but I'd certainly entertain the prospect of New Zealand.

I've been here for just over 4 months now and i'm loving it! If i didn't have a girlfriend back home I'd be well up for staying here longer. Great place!!

Perhaps, but the censorship in New Zealandkinda bothers me. I dont wanna be labeled a criminal, and given a fine, just for wanting to play a videogame like GTA.

How's the weather and taxes over there though?

to be fair i dont think anyones actually ever been arrested for owning a video game in NZ.... there are some games out there which carry fines if you are caught in possession, and they have been known to try and prosecute people for owning banned books but if you do a suitable google search you will only find a handful of cases over the last 5 years, and I havent found any of them where the member of the public has actually had a penalty imposed on tem by the end of it.

having said that here are the current rules, they are pretty scary in their broadness:

A person is liable to be imprisoned for up to five years for possessing or importing an objectionable publication, knowing or having reasonable cause to believe it is objectionable.

A person who supplies, gives, offers or provides access to an objectionable publication, knowing or having reasonable cause to believe it is objectionable, is liable to be imprisoned for a maximum of ten years. A corporation can be fined up to $200,000 for the same offence.

So far I have lived in Germany and Jordan. Both beautiful places in terms of nature. In terms of people, Jordan was warmer to me. In Germany there are a lot more people however, with whom I can talk about my two favourite subjects, movies and Middle Eastern affairs.

But... do I like to live in these places? No. Germany is very expensive and in terms of jobs, you'll have to take whatever you get in order to survive. So even if you have studied medicine and can't find a job, you have to drive a cab or so in order to stay above the water.

At the moment, I am working at the Deutsche Welle, for no money [Bowling for Columbine mode]and I don't mean, "I work at Wal Mart and make no money"[/Bowling for Columbine mode], I mean no money. I need one year of job experience to study technical journalism. The Deutsche Welle Radio know that shit and take a lot of advantage of us people.

However, I wanna make movies and the planned study is just my Plan B. So wherever I can make movies I will move. Currently, I am thinking of Turkey, Istanbul. Wonderful city and the movie market is rising over there right now. Besides, the current script I'm writing takes place in Germany and Istanbul and I am working on it with a Turkish actor who knows some investors in Turkey. So as soon as the project with Bey and Maggie I am working on is done, I will work on the Istanbul-project. (If I'm not studying technical journalism by then.)

Mordib: yeah, it's very scary that rules on that are so strict and narrowminded. I really dont like ANY censorship, so that would be a good reason for me not to move there.

How's the weather and taxes over there?

LD: Hope the moviecareer works out, as that's your first goal. Sucks ur not getting paid at the moment but luckily you can get experience to reach ur goal.

What kind of movies are you interested in making? HK style action, or also serious crime/drama stuff and perhaps documentaries? perhaps next time you go visit relatives in the middle east, you could try and make a documentary about the people there, their views on Islam and all their other views on life and politics!?
It would be interesting, plus it would look good on your resume.

after only living in england, i cant really say much other than it sucks here, probably like most places in the world...the education fees are pretty extortionate after you leave college...and the amount of racism is depressing...besides the arrogance of many people and intellectually devoid younger generation who think its cool to get drunk and stoned and live on benefits and be a lazy ass (not all but alot..)and a prime minister whos head is so far up americas ass, that when he speaks bushes mouth moves...

so its probably good that you didnt want to come here lol i wouldnt either

i plan to leave here as soon as possible, i was hoping for next year after i finish my a-levels. but like most i dunno where to go, i was thinking italy, germany, or thailand, borneo sounds good since i would really love to work in the orangutan rescue center there...but then i think i decided to just never stay anywhere for more than a few years and just travel, expensive but good experiences (doesnt please my parents tho ).. i study to be a photograpic journalist, i just didnt yet study the journalism part, that will cost around £15,000 here which im just not willing to pay :\

weathr is warm to bloody cold. less chaotic, wet and cold on average than the uk though. dont know about taxes im afraid, though its an ex colony so no doubt pretty close to the UKs... not that you live there either... erm....


at the risk of starting an arguement student fees are cheap compared to what they should be (and yes, I was a student and I am and will be in debt for a long time )

Yeah I'm a student as well, plus taken a loan, and certainly not planning on repaying any of it, since the money needed is just way to high for what you're getting...
I feel I've paid enough for school already, especially since the school is utter utter crap. Printers that dont work, grades and assignments that get lost, problems with the server on school (many assignments were lost due to a server-crash/fuck-up, so had to be remade by lots of students, this past winter)
Some of the teachers are good (although they somehow managed to FIRE the very best teacher there was) but overall the school just sucks. Like almost anything in Holland SUCKS.

Everytime when something isnt 100% Ok, they announce changes to make it better. the changes end up costing us more money, and the changes are almost never for the better. So in the end you pay more for less. Holland was known for cheap and very good healthcare, and right now you have to pay 85+ euro to be insured while it's still a bit fucked up. We were once in the top 3-5 of the world with our education-system, and right now thats fucked up as well. We are forcing people that cant work, back to work, simply because they have set quota's for the amount of people that should be working, so the people deciding if someone is able to work, is just gonna label a certain amount of people to be able to work, no matter what's wrong with them.
I can go on and on and on about all the stuff wrong with Holland. from very little things, to very big bigs. Import-taxes, lots of ridiculous taxes, rules, etc etc...
It's a shitty shitty country to live in.

Canada seems my favourite option at the moment, cause HK would be too expensive and difficult to find a job. It's supposedly has low taxes and housing and stuff.

Also thought about maybe Thailand and just enter a cheap camp where you can train Muay Thai every day and sleep... but that's more for single people I guess.
Plus I've been to Thailand and wasnt particularly fond of what I saw.

Yi-Long wrote:

degeneration wrote:Too much writing in this one for me to read in the time I've got in this internet cafe, but I'd certainly entertain the prospect of New Zealand.

I've been here for just over 4 months now and i'm loving it! If i didn't have a girlfriend back home I'd be well up for staying here longer. Great place!!

Perhaps, but the censorship in New Zealandkinda bothers me. I dont wanna be labeled a criminal, and given a fine, just for wanting to play a videogame like GTA.

How's the weather and taxes over there though?

Taxes - Well the GST (sales tax) is 12.5%... not sure about other taxes. I'm working here just now and my pay is taxed at almost exactly 20%.

Weather - great! Much better than britain. It has been consistently above 20 degrees since I got here in Oct. In auckland it has been around 22-24 on average most days. Definitely been some much hotter days (nearer 30) and a few colder ones (high teens). Other parts of the country (particularly the east) have consistently been in the high 20's. Apparently there is still another month or so (usually) of good weather left... so if it last till end of march, that'll have been Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb, Mar - 6 months of 20+ temps! Been mostly sunny, but there have been some torrential rain storms too.

But I'm lovin' it!!!

Could definitely live in NZ.

I didn't know about all that censorship stuff that you were talking about, and definitely don't like it, but there are a lot of plus points! Ppl have been really friendly.

Although i'm sure living here properly would be different to living here as a backpacker. I've met so many cool people in the hostel I've been in.

Well, taxes sound OK in NZ. Weather as well. I already know the scenery down there is gorgeous
Just have to watch out for rabbid hobbits, nnut other then that it sounds like a cool place.

Just read today that Australia has banned the new Graffiti videogame...

So that seems like the only flaw... the censorship.