Breaking news: Heath Ledger found dead... :(

Killer Meteor · Post by **Killer Meteor** » 25 Jan 2008, 09:01

I'm not worried, I'm just intrigued as what changes if any might be made in the light of this news.Be interesting

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 25 Jan 2008, 11:24

How did Carrey play the Riddler in Batman Forever (I think)?. The Penguin was cool, in a panto sort of way, less OTT than the Joker in Batman.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 25 Jan 2008, 11:29

Yi-Long wrote:I understand that, but since all the footage with Heath has already been shot, they should just stick to that marketing plan. The Joker is crucial to that movie. Heath's death has nothing to do with that.

All the film footage has been shot (presumably), but we're talking the blanket marketing here: posters, billboards, Mcdonalds batman theme meals, etc. They would have had Ledger in the photo studio for another round of Joker images in the run up to the film's release, but now all that will have to either be scrapped or recycled from the photoshoots Ledger already took part in.

I'd imagine the more commercial stuff (like the Mcdonalds) and range of Joker toys will be affected by the "bad taste" accusation though, so that might cause them to rethink things there.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 25 Jan 2008, 13:37

Ironically what could be more respectful then to give Ledger full lime light by praising what is looking like a career best.

grim_tales wrote:How did Carrey play the Riddler in Batman Forever (I think)?.

Camped up. By that point the Dark Knight at long gone.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 25 Jan 2008, 13:45

Shingster wrote:
Yi-Long wrote:I understand that, but since all the footage with Heath has already been shot, they should just stick to that marketing plan. The Joker is crucial to that movie. Heath's death has nothing to do with that.
All the film footage has been shot (presumably), but we're talking the blanket marketing here: posters, billboards, Mcdonalds batman theme meals, etc. They would have had Ledger in the photo studio for another round of Joker images in the run up to the film's release, but now all that will have to either be scrapped or recycled from the photoshoots Ledger already took part in.

I'd imagine the more commercial stuff (like the Mcdonalds) and range of Joker toys will be affected by the "bad taste" accusation though, so that might cause them to rethink things there.

Yeah... imagine McDonalds being accused of bad taste

Anyway, I see your point and all that, but I think they shouldt care what people MIGHT say, and just stick to their original marketing plan for as much as possible.

Jim Carrey was pretty much the only good thing in that movie. Carrey did well in a bad movie. And yeah, it was camped up, as the whole movie was camped up. I would have LOVED to see a realistic movie with Carrey as the Ridler.

I like that most Batman villains are screwed in the head. I can relate to that. Batman himself is also kinda screwed in the head ofcourse. I just love Batman, when they get it right

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 25 Jan 2008, 16:11

It would have been interesting to see Carrey do a 'dark' version of The Riddler.

Who knows, maybe he can be persuaded to try again?

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 25 Jan 2008, 17:13

Yi-Long wrote:. I just love Batman, when they get it right

It's sad that they rarely ever do a successful on-screen adaptations of Batman. We've Batman: The Animated Series (and Mask of the Phantasm) and Batman Begins, that's it. (The Burton films were WAY off the mark.)

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 25 Jan 2008, 17:32

The Tim Burton films were successful as entertainment, but perhaps not as adaptations? I never read the comics so don't really know. Burton made the films as they would interest him, and probably didn't care much about fidelity to source. At least his films are more fun to watch than than the overly-pretentious Begins.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 25 Jan 2008, 17:36

Personally I like both Burton Batman's and Batman Begins.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 25 Jan 2008, 17:38

I didn't dislike Begins, far from it. But it's a bit up itself to be honest.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 25 Jan 2008, 17:39

bradavon wrote:Personally I like both Burton Batman's

Good pieces of cinema? Fuck yes. But good Batman adaptations? Far from it.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 25 Jan 2008, 17:51

The only comics I ever read were:

Beano
Dandy
Teenage Mutant "Hero" Turtles

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 25 Jan 2008, 18:57

Markgway wrote:The Tim Burton films were successful as entertainment, but perhaps not as adaptations? At least his films are more fun to watch than than the overly-pretentious Begins.

Err, I think it's safe to say that Burtons films, with their excessive Gothic overtones, pop-pyschology, and constantly brooding/moping hero are far more pretentious than Batman Begins, which at least attempted to convey a sense of practicality to the concept of a man who dresses up as a bat to fight criminals.

Somewhat Ironically though, its the villains in the Burton films that lighten up those films' pretentions, which certainly isn't the case for Batman Begins. Either way though, Akiva Goldsman's scripts for Batman Forever and Batman & Robin trump all other Batman films for insufferable pretentions.

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 25 Jan 2008, 19:47

bradavon wrote:The only comics I ever read were:

Beano
Dandy
Teenage Mutant "Hero" Turtles

you missed out then.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 25 Jan 2008, 20:09

Possibly. I only ever owned a Game Boy and Game Gear too (I went straight to PC's). I probably missed out on that too, not that I cared.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 26 Jan 2008, 02:18

Can't say I found any pretentions in Burton's films. Didn't seem like they were taking it all that seriously to be honest. Everything was so over-the-top and cartoonish without much discussion of meaning or psychology. In 'Begins' the characters spend so much time justifying themselves and their actions it's more speechifying than 'real' dialogue.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 26 Jan 2008, 02:26

It doesn't happen often but I have to agree with Mark on this one. Begins is way more pretentious than Batman: The Movie or Batman Returns. I don't consider any of them pretentious per say though.

The Batman: The Movie wins a hell of a lot because of Jack Nicholson. Batman Begins wins because it's so dark but it did take the material a wee bit too seriously (not enough to really hurt it). The villains are weak too, something thankfully it looks like they've fixed in part 2. I don't think it's as good as many do but it's still ace.

X-Men 2 and Superman 2 (Lester cut) are better than all the Batman films. I've yet to see Superman 2: Donner Cut.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 26 Jan 2008, 02:43

Never rated the Superman films; not even the original, which was too overblown and long-winded. Reeve was good, but it was mostly 2.5 hrs of dull. And 'Returns' failed to change that, suffering as it did from many of the same problems. II is the second half of I and so largely more of the same. III starred Richard Pryor. 'Nuff said. IV was made on the cheap by Cannon. 'Nuff said.

The best comic adaptation thus far has been The Rocketeer -- and it :bom:

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 26 Jan 2008, 03:19

Markgway wrote:Never rated the Superman films; not even the original, which was too overblown and long-winded. Reeve was good, but it was mostly 2.5 hrs of dull.

It's been years since I've seen it but my memory has to agree with you. I did buy Superman SE, Superman 2 SE and Superman Returns though as I want to watch all three in order with a fresh mind.

Personally I liked Superman Returns despite it's problems. Some of the cinematography was ace. I'm looking to the next Superman instalment.

Markgway wrote:II is the second half of I and so largely more of the same.

You reckon? I thought it was ace. It's much more action packed.

Markgway wrote:The best comic adaptation thus far has been The Rocketeer -- and it :bom:

Oh man that was shit.

Flash was cool

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 26 Jan 2008, 10:20

It was Superman 3 that got me into Superman and other comicbooks, back when I was a little kid. But yeah, none of the Superman movies are really any good, tbh.
Superman Returns is gawdawfull in fact.

Like Eva said, Batman The Animated Series, and those movies, come closest to how I would like Batman to be done.

Also, and again like Eva said, Batman 1 and 2 are nice movies, but as far as adaptions of Batman goes, they are a bit too far out there. Cant say I love them, although the soundtracks and style is certainly nice.
Burton did nail the 'style' of Gotham City etc...

Batman Begins was a good Batman movie, I dont really like the casting of Bale. I would have much preferred Joaquin Phoenix in the lead role, as he definately has the Bruce Wayne look to him. Bale did a fine acting job, but I still would have liked Phoenix better.

The X-Men movies are 'meh' as far as I'm concerned. Dont really care for the casting, or the look, or the stories.They're OK superhero movies etc, but for me who had been reading the Xmen comics for many years, it just didnt feel as 'my' Xmen. Professor X IS good casting btw.

Spider-man are the superhero movies that to me comes closes to the comicbook, as far as story, 'feel' and casting goes.
There is still stuff to dislike, but the general vibe is great.
I do HATE the casting of stickgirl as Mary Jane though. MJ in the comics is gorgeous, voloptious, FUN, relaxed, cool, etc. MJ in the movie is a whining ugly biatch.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 26 Jan 2008, 10:26

Bale's acting was OK. He's not charismatic in the slightest, but maybe that's the point? In BEGINS he wears the mask to put fear into his foe, whereas in the Burton movies he wears it to disguise his own demons. Also I found Bale's gravel-voice for Batman a bit annoying (apparently it gave him sore throats).

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 26 Jan 2008, 14:37

Yi-Long wrote:Batman Begins was a good Batman movie, I dont really like the casting of Bale. I would have much preferred Joaquin Phoenix in the lead role, as he definately has the Bruce Wayne look to him. Bale did a fine acting job, but I still would have liked Phoenix better.

You what? Sure he could pull off the look but physically he's all wrong.

Bale nailed it.

Yi-Long wrote:The X-Men movies are 'meh' as far as I'm concerned. Dont really care for the casting, or the look, or the stories.They're OK superhero movies etc, but for me who had been reading the Xmen comics for many years, it just didnt feel as 'my' Xmen. Professor X IS good casting btw.

I bought X-Men 1 SE then sold it, then bought it again and recently finally sold it.

X-men 1 suffers greatly from a very weak plot and lack of cash, all of which is greatly fixed in X-Men 2 which is ace and one of the best superhero films ever. X-Men 3 has the action but is otherwise completely void of talent (from the director), substance and heart. IMO you really cannot compare the first two with the third.

Yi-Long wrote:Spider-man are the superhero movies that to me comes closes to the comicbook, as far as story, 'feel' and casting goes. There is still stuff to dislike, but the general vibe is great.

They're incredibly overrated, way to glossy and bright, and mostly all wrong. I've not even bothered with part 3 as parts 1-2 were so average.

Yi-Long wrote:I do HATE the casting of stickgirl as Mary Jane though. MJ in the comics is gorgeous, voloptious, FUN, relaxed, cool, etc. MJ in the movie is a whining ugly biatch.

Agreed.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 26 Jan 2008, 14:49

I found the Burton Batman villains to be very pantomime, perhaps thats the point, eg the Joker in Batman especially. The Penguin was good I thought, while he can be played as a tortured soul, abandoned by his parents etc, what realism can you put in a performance playing a half man-half penguin? He was panto/OTT too to a point.
Spiderman 1 and 2 were excellent IMO, 3 not so much (though I still enjoyed it).