Drugs.

[gasteropod]

Romero clearly thinks all drugs (illegal, anyway) are from Hell and that anyone who uses them is a 'moron', but I happen to think differently. I was just wondering what other persons' opinions are on the matter. Does anyone here use any illegal drugs at all? Ever had any bad experiences to speak of?

[romerojpg]

Nah I think alcohol and Fags are a joke as well. They kill more than the others thats for sure and ruin more lives. including mine.

[Yi-Long]

I dont do drugs and have never didany drugs. Not even to try it out.
Also I dont drink alcohol and I dont smoke, although as a kid you get them handed to you to 'try out' by 'mates'. But I'm pretty good at just saying I dont like the taste and would rather have a cola and some chocolate, or whatever.
I dont even drink coffee.

Why would you wanna eat, drink, smoke stuff that will make you dumb, not in control, disillussional, smell bad, and look like an idiot, when it usually doesnt even taste nice!?

It always seemed pretty dumb to me to start with that kinda crap.

That's not to say I think all drugs are 'bad', or that alcohol should be banned, or whatever. In moderation, many things can be enjoyed and usually dont cause serious harm, if any harm at all.
It just means that personally I'm not into any of that stuff.

[bradavon]

Care to tell us what you think Gasteropod?

This would be better in Debate.

I've tried smoking Cannabis one one occasion but didn't find it was really any different from getting drunk. I only had a few drags though so I don't think I had enough. Personally I control alcohol and have never let it control me so for me anyway it's perfectly safe. I drink very little and can count on two hands the amount of times I've drunk to get drunk.

It's a social thing to me and I don't care what any non-drinker says drinking does make you more relaxed and have a better time, provided like most you don't take it too far though. I do now know when I've had enough so simply stop and am unusual in that I can equally be content at going out, and only having 1-3 pints.

It's been proven many times Cannabis is no more harmful than alcohol. Personally I think it should be legal and let the person decide (like prostitution). I don't know the details but I think they've got it about right in Holland, let adults for themselves. The harder drugs like heroine or cocaine (which are the ones which actually ruin lives) should remain illegal. Smoking cannabis has only ever done the person smoking it harm and then (like alcohol) if they get addicted.

Cannabis is only illegal in this country as it's banded in with the other harder drugs, and most people aren't capable of separating drugs apart, not because it's any more harmful than the legal alcohol. In fact it's probably less harmful.

To clarify what Romero said about Alcohol ruining more lives, that's because it's legal and socially acceptable. I do think however the government have a duty to make smoking more difficult as that helps no one and not even most smokers really like it.

But I'm pretty good at just saying I dont like the taste and would rather have a cola and some chocolate, or whatever.

The problem I find when I'm out but not drinking is you're left with drinks like coke which are so god damn sweet and you're always given a really small glass which you finish way to quickly.

This is especially bad for a Guinness drinker, like me

I actually prefer non-alcoholic beer to coke when I'm out as at least it takes like beer (kind of). As it happens I like coke but it's a pale substitute for beer.

Why would you wanna eat, drink, smoke stuff that will make you dumb, not in control, disillussional, smell bad, and look like an idiot, when it usually doesnt even taste nice!?

Well taste obviously is subjective. I happen to think most beers and ales taste great.

As to "eat, drink, smoke stuff that will make you dumb, not in control, disillussional, smell bad, and look like an idiot" that only happens if you drink too much of it. That is what really annoys me about non-drinkers, they all presume you're either: T Total or a Drunk.

There is a middle ground. I drink beer most weeks but get drunk 1-2 a year, usually only once a year.

It always seemed pretty dumb to me to start with that kinda crap.

That's the thing. It's not dumb or crap if you control it, instead of letting it control you. People just as easily get addictive to computer games. Any form of addiction is a bad thing.

[gasteropod]

Nah I think alcohol and Fags are a joke as well. They kill more than the others thats for sure and ruin more lives. including mine.

On a recent episode of 'Horizon', I think alcohol came no. 5 on a list of 20 of the most dangerous drugs. Tobacco wasn't far behind either.

I hate the way that alcohol, which is a depressant, is the drug which is practically encouraged in society. You wouldn't see all those fights and stuff on nights out if people took a bit of MDMA instead, that's for sure. On some nights out when drinking alcohol, I actually feel like killing myself, it's a stupid drug really.

I also hate the way that by making certain drugs illegal, it's harming people who use them due to the dealers mixing in harmful drugs. Weed can often contain tiny glass balls for instance, to make it weigh more, and these balls burn holes through your lungs. The same goes for people trying to get ecstasy, it's generally sold in pill form, but these can contain many different things which can harm and even kill people.

[Yi-Long]

Nah I think alcohol and Fags are a joke as well. They kill more than the others thats for sure and ruin more lives. including mine.

Well... obviously that's because they are used WAY more than drugs.

If everyone was constantly sniffing and shooting up on drugs, ofcourse the bodycount would go up like a mofo...
Also, you can still be productive when smoking, but when you're high as a kite, you're less likely to be very productive (depending on your job), so it would hurt both the economy as well as your own career.

But yeah, it's kinda hypocrite that alcohol and smoking are tolerated and accepted, while drugs obviously are not.

[gasteropod]

Care to tell us what you think Gasteropod?

I think that heroin and cocaine are pretty much the only drugs which should be illegal, for people's safety.

My favourite drug is ecstasy, but in crystal form which is just the pure MDMA without shit mixed with it. If you don't abuse it by taking too much, or too often, then evidence so far shows that it does you no harm. All it does is release the serotonin stored in your brain, similar to the way chocolate can make people feel happier and stuff, but obviously a lot more intense. I've had it a few times, and every time was the night of my life basically.

MDMA came 18 out of 20 on the Horizon programme, which I was pleased to see. The only reason it wasn't 20, is because of people misusing it, e.g. not keeping hydrated, or drinking too much water whilst not being active. But if it were legal, these would basically be instructions written on the box . The scientists on the programme were practically recommending the drug, I couldn't believe what I was seeing on a BBC programme haha. But my Sociology teacher back at college was saying the same thing.

Brad, weed gives a more floaty, chilled out feeling than alcohol, from my experience . That's a cool drug to smoke every now and then, like at parties and stuff, but people misuse it by smoking it daily, I know people like that and it's just silly.

[bradavon]

I hate the way that alcohol, which is a depressant, is the drug which is practically encouraged in society.

Me too. I wouldn't say it's practically encouraged it IS encouraged but to clarify it's not all countries.

It seems to be the "cold" countries more strangely enough and from my experience is particularly bad in The UK AND Ireland. I do find it annoying under 20s and under 30s always get the blame when in reality it's a problem right through society from any age to any demographic. The rich lot drink far too much too.

It's a problem right from your about 5 and doesn't stop until you're dead. By the time you're a teenager it's no wonder most people drink too much. They're got other kids their age, older kids and even ALL so called adults drinking too much.

[gasteropod]

That's the thing. It's not dumb or crap if you control it, instead of letting it control you. People just as easily get addictive to computer games. Any form of addiction is a bad thing.

You are speaking sense, that's exactly it.

Edit: Which is why heroin should definitely stay illegal, since there is no way you can stay in control of that, that is one drug which definitely takes control of you after the first time you take it.

[romerojpg]

Thing is it does depend on what happens in your life, to me my life has went the way of Aniti drugs and also Anti crime etc.. for BIG reasons that effect me in bad ways.

Family and friends, or even people you knew around you, once shit happens to them in big ways it fucks up your life too. If one big bad thing happens to someone you love, believe me many people would change their ways and mind very quickly.

It may just be a few fags a day, or a few drinks or a few smokes on weed, but when it effects someone else in a big way it can change lives.

Most people will never experience that kind of shit, hopefully.
If you did you may be more like me and hard on drugs and crime.

[gasteropod]

If you did you may be more like me and hard on drugs and crime.

I don't need any bad experience to make me anti-crime, but as for drugs, I'd recognise that the problem was misuse.

[bradavon]

Romero clearly thinks all drugs (illegal, anyway) are from Hell and that anyone who uses them is a 'moron'

The thing to remember about Romero, is he's an absolutist. Everything is either black or white, right or wrong. To him it's either all drugs are evil or they're not.

I've always thought of Romero as intelligent but I don't think he's capable of thinking in anything but absolutes, which means his arguments often tend to fall apart.

I've had it a few times, and every time was the night of my life basically.

It's interesting to read your point of view, as you're someone whose actually tried illegal drugs (more so than many anyway). I do find many people easily knock illegal drugs when they've never even tried them.

The scientists on the programme were practically recommending the drug, I couldn't believe what I was seeing on a BBC programme haha. But my Sociology teacher back at college was saying the same thing.

I presume recommending it "if you have to take any drug" scenario?

Brad, weed gives a more floaty, chilled out feeling than alcohol, from my experience .

I find alcohol increases feelings I'm already feeling. If I'm happy I feel even more happy but if I'm depressed I feel worse.

I dont even drink coffee.

3-4 years ago I couldn't stand coffee and only ever drank it when I was knackered.

Today I drink it every day (not to excess though) as I've know gone a 100% u-turn and actually like it. I also like how it gives me a buzz and keeps me awake.

I am unusual though, in that I don't do anything to excess. The only thing I probably do to excess is buy DVDs/HD Discs but we're only talking £30-40 on average a month. I don't smoke, barely drink by most peoples standards, have only ever been in debt once (when I came back from travelling).

If you did you may be more like me and hard on drugs and crime.

It's a bit far fetched to be comparing crime with drugs, especially as we're talking about social drug taking not drug addicts anyway.

I don't need any bad experience to make me anti-crime, but as for drugs, I'd recognise that the problem was misuse.

Exactly.

I don't think Romero is capable of appreciating the difference between use and misuse.

[grim_tales]

I don't smoke or do any other drugs, but I do drink I don't think I want to try smoking TBH (I wonder), it would probably taste like ass, awful
Gasteropod I thought if you have a few beers it makes you more sociable or whatever
Surely if you're addicted to something, you let it control you? I thought that was what addiction was. But if you have the willpower, good for you (I'm talking generally).

[romerojpg]

Romero clearly thinks all drugs (illegal, anyway) are from Hell and that anyone who uses them is a 'moron'

The thing to remember about Romero, is he's an absolutist. Everything is either black or white, right or wrong. To him it's either all drugs are evil or they're not.

I've always thought of Romero as intelligent but I don't think he's capable of thinking in anything but absolutes, which means his arguments often tend to fall apart.

I don't think Romero is capable of appreciating the difference between use and misuse.

Thats the thing you "Think", your thoughts about me mean little, they are yours not mine. Does not mean you are right about me or anyone else thats for sure.

It is the net, getting points across etc.. isnt easy to many, in real life face to face it would be different I am sure of that.

[gasteropod]

Gasteropod I thought if you have a few beers it makes you more sociable or whatever
Surely if you're addicted to something, you let it control you? I thought that was what addiction was. But if you have the willpower, good for you (I'm talking generally).

Beer makes you more sociable because it turns off your inhibitions.

Yeah, that is what addiction is, but I'm not addicted to anything. MDMA isn't particularly addictive, if at all (although I guess any drug can be addictive if you take it too far). Once you've depleted your serotonin stores, if you take more MDMA your brain starts releasing dopeamine instead, which is toxic, so that can mess people up. That's what happens when you don't take things in moderation, though.

[gasteropod]

I presume recommending it "if you have to take any drug" scenario?

In a way, but the way you put it makes it sound like any drug is inherently bad, but they were explaining how it really does have very few negative effects as long as you use it in moderation. And that doesn't just mean health effects, but behavioural as well. People on ecstasy just all love each other haha, it's quite amusing to outsiders but it's great when you're experiencing it. A tad different to alcohol which can make people aggressive and fight each other.

[bradavon]

I don't think I want to try smoking TBH (I wonder), it would probably taste like ass, awful

I think most/all smokers find the taste gross but get into it not because of the taste, it's often due to peer pressure when you're young.

I bet 99.9% of smokers would never smoke if it was introduced to them after their mid 20s. Most start smoking when they're impressionable teenagers.

but the way you put it makes it sound like any drug is inherently bad

That was Romero not me . I'm pretty much agreeing with you.

but they were explaining how it really does have very few negative effects as long as you use it in moderation.

Most drugs I'd agree. I don't think even light smoking does you any good though.

A tad different to alcohol which can make people aggressive and fight each other.

Only types who're aggressive anyway. I'd not want to hit anyone drunk, any more than I would sober.

[gasteropod]

Only types who're aggressive anyway. I'd not want to hit anyone drunk, any more than I would sober.

Yeah I never get aggressive from alcohol either, but my sister told me she does hahaha.

[bradavon]

Women can get really catty, it's scary.

[gasteropod]

Yeah I had bad experiences with the ex

[saltysam]

when i go out i have 10-12 pints,but i can go months without a drink so it's not an addiction.

[bradavon]

My Mum drinks 1-2 bottles of wine a week, she never gets drunk but she's probably a wee bit addicted seeing as she'd struggle to do without it.

I tend to buy 1-2 bottles of wine every 4-6 weeks . I drink coffee mostly, but I don't do that to excess either.

Question: Considering how much flack under 30s get for drinking, do you guys find when your parents go out, they drive but still drink? My parents almost always drive but they also drink, not to excess and they're probably not breaking the law but I'm sure they've come close.

When my mates and I are drinking we only EVER have 1 drink or nothing. I tend to have 1 pint or 2 bottles but another mate doesn't drink at all. I just find it annoying it's the under 30s who get all the flack when I'd bet statistically over 40s drink as much as youngsters, they just hide it better.

[Yi-Long]

I'm thinking of starting to drink red wine myself, as supposedly 1 glass a day is very very healthy.

I never liked the taste of wine, except for cheap sweet white Lambrusco wine, which I once tasted and nearly drank up half the bottle...

I dont like the taste of alcohol. It does absolutely nothing for me, I dont feel cool or more relaxed after drinking, and to me it also isnt addictive...

[bradavon]

I dont like the taste of alcohol.

To me alcoholic drinks taste very different. Beer tastes nothing like wine which tastes nothing like alchopops (which often taste non-alcoholic).

I also hear 1 glass a day of red wine is good for you, personally I find red wine too heavy and prefer white wine.

[gasteropod]

When my mates and I are drinking we only EVER have 1 drink or nothing. I tend to have 1 pint or 2 bottles but another mate doesn't drink at all.

Wow, 1 drink? That's definitely not what I'm used to.

It's not just red wine that has health benefits, it's actually alcohol in general (well it's specifically ethanol we're talking about here) which has health benefits when consumed in small moderation. But wine also has antioxidants from the grapes I'd imagine.