Good Golly, Carol Thatcher!

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 07 Feb 2009, 09:45

Should Carol Thatcher have been banned from the BBC (or at least The One Show) for using the term "gollywog" in a joke off-air.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 07 Feb 2009, 10:07

If this article is to be believed, I think what she said is offensive and unpleasant, clearly an insult that stems from racism. The tennis player looks nothing like the golliwog toy to me. Would anyone call a black person a "wog"? Of course not. That's where the word comes from.

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/ ... 671863.ece

She claimed it was a joke, she should at least apologise.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 07 Feb 2009, 12:27

She was fired from The One show, which I think is enough. All the fuddy duddies still asking Ross be fired need to get a life. He was suspended for 3 months, that's enough.

When you do something at work, you don't expect to be fired immediately (unless it was so bad). It's getting REALLY FUCKING BORING. I doubt many under 40 gives a monkeys, it's all old fuddy duddies.

Yes what she said was wrong and clearly a sort of racism but she was fired, end of. I'm not at all surprised Thatcher thinks this, her Mum is Maggie for christ's sake. Now I think of it, all the furore over the Royal Family isn't exactly surprising, they're mostly likely racist too. They come from an era when it was okay to say such things and their kids pick up on this.

I do also think it wrong that you shouldn't be able to say certain things in private. If it's a private conversation, it's a private conversation. The guys I work with say far, far worse.

What Jeremy Clarkson again was blown out of all proportion. If you don't like there brand of humour, switch over. Both Ross and Clarkson have lots of fans. There would be just as many angry people as happy if they got fired. Being Vegetarian means I've been on the receiving end at times, it's best just to brush it off.

It's got to the point that people in the media are afraid of saying anything. The fuddy duddies who moan should go to a comedy club, they say far far worse.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 07 Feb 2009, 12:46

I know what you mean Brad. As you say though you just laugh off some things as it could be friendly banter. Clarkson has apologised for what he said AFAIK.
If someone had banter with me and called me a c*nt or whatever I'd laugh it off I think. If someone I didnt know insulted me thats different.
IMO what Carol said and how she said it was insulting and demeaning, if not actually racist. Reading what she really said, it is racist IMO.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 07 Feb 2009, 13:14

People are way too oversensitive.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 07 Feb 2009, 13:26

Exactly.

There's a massive difference between rude words said in jest (as in Clarkson) and rude words said in a mean spirited way.

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 07 Feb 2009, 13:34

This type of things really lets me know i'm getting on.i remember the days of the black & white minstrel show,golliwogs on tins of jam etc...these days you can't say a word without there being a huge furore

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 07 Feb 2009, 13:35

Yeah, it's all about the context, but than again, we 've already had that discussion many times.

I was watching Don Rickles on youtube 2 nights ago, and he's SO politically incorrect, but at the same time he gets away with it all cause a: he's politically incorrect against EVERYONE, and b: he just has an attitude of; let's just laugh about all these differences and stuff that's weird for outsiders etc etc, instead of getting upset about it.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 07 Feb 2009, 13:49

That's the trouble with these media reports they're always taken completely out of context.

saltysam wrote:This type of things really lets me know i'm getting on.i remember the days of the black & white minstrel show,golliwogs on tins of jam etc...

Did you find them offensive at the time? Do you now?

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 07 Feb 2009, 16:09

bradavon wrote:

Did you find them offensive at the time? Do you know?

Have to be honest,i don't remember.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 07 Feb 2009, 18:11

Oops:

Do you now?

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 07 Feb 2009, 21:12

offensive?well i wouldn't call someone a golliwog,it's pretty derogatory isn't it?

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 07 Feb 2009, 21:34

Indeed. Well Carol Thatcher did exactly that, she called him "the golliwog" and "that froggy golliwoggy guy". That is offensive IMO and it is a racial slur when used in that manner.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 07 Feb 2009, 21:42

I see no harm calling a French person a frog.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 07 Feb 2009, 21:48

I wouldn't do it to their face though, that is a stereotype too at least or mildly racist. All nationalities have those sorts of names for each other.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 07 Feb 2009, 21:52

Why did Jonathan Ross get suspended and Carol Thatcher fired? I agree that what she said was offensive (though whether it was intended to be as racist as it came across is difficult to say since none of us have heard the tone she spoke in or the full context of the discussion/joke). Those that know her say she isn't racist. Firing her was a definite overreaction because what she said she said off air unlike other presenters who made their remarks on air or at least on BBC promotional business (as in Clarkson's case). I would never use the term "golliwog" to describe anyone but was it a stupid gaff or something more sinster? Probably the former I would imagine. I'd like to know who reported her. I think the more worrying aspect is that we live in a stasi-like state where thought police are behind every curtain. Let's face it: If anyone from The Guardian read this board we'd be fucked. Except Brad who'd get a job offer. It's hard to imagine Jo Brand gettting all upset when you consider her vulgar stage act but someone felt strongly enough to make an issue out of it when it could have easily been handled in private. The BBC out to hang a sacrificial lamb to make up for past sins? I think so. Be interesting to see if anything happens to Clarkson...

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 07 Feb 2009, 21:53

bradavon wrote:I see no harm calling a French person a frog.

*TOM PREPARES TO HEADBUTT BRAD*

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 07 Feb 2009, 21:58

Clarkson has apologised for what he said (kind of), he apologised for upsetting the Scots and disabled people, but wouldnt say sorry for calling him (Brown) an idiot. I didnt even know Brown was blind in one eye until the Clarkson story brought it out.
I don't find Jo Brand that vulgar, just not very funny. She's been doing the "men are bastards" thing for the past 20 years...

Killer Meteor · Post by **Killer Meteor** » 07 Feb 2009, 21:58

Markgway wrote:Let's face it: If anyone from The Guardian read this board we'd be fucked. Except Brad who'd get a job offer. ...

Oi! The Guardians just about the only paper I can stomach!

Just pray the Daily Mail doesn't find us

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 08 Feb 2009, 00:21

Markgway wrote:Why did Jonathan Ross get suspended and Carol Thatcher fired?

She was fired from her job at The One Show not fired from the BBC. It was also a different person making the desicion so who knows.

I suspect they wouldn't fire Ross lightly as his Friday night show is one of the most popular the BBC have.

Markgway wrote:Firing her was a definite overreaction

Probably but likewise retaining her would've gone against the entire tone of the show, it's supposed to be about different cultures etc... It's a bit twee but I like it.

grim_tales wrote:Clarkson has apologised for what he said (kind of), he apologised for upsetting the Scots and disabled people, but wouldnt say sorry for calling him (Brown) an idiot.

I believe he apologised for what he said, not any specifics. Besides if you have to apologise for calling someone an idiot, things are really going down hill.

Brown is an idiot, an idiot we didn't get a chance to vote for. I still find it crazy the British people didn't get to vote him in power or not, he was given it on a silver platter.

Markgway wrote:Let's face it: If anyone from The Guardian read this board we'd be fucked. Except Brad who'd get a job offer.

You reckon I read the Guardian? I tried once, rubbish paper, nothing interesting at all. I prefer The Times (or Independent).

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 08 Feb 2009, 18:13

Compared to what Carol said, I find Clarksons' comments lighthearted, he only said what mist people were thinking

I think it was out of order to make fun of his disability though.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 08 Feb 2009, 21:28

Ivan Drago wrote:Oi! The Guardians just about the only paper I can stomach!

Only a Guardian reader would support their paper of choice with a punctuation error.

Left-wing bilge is just as bad as right-wing bilge in my book.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 08 Feb 2009, 21:30

grim_tales wrote:Compared to what Carol said, I find Clarksons' comments lighthearted, he only said what mist people were thinking I think it was out of order to make fun of his disability though.

Tell that to people with one eye.

As a Scot I don't give a fork about Clarkson. He's a two-eyed English idiot. So be it.

A black woman (no one famous) made the point that she was offended by white liberals being offended on her behalf as though she were incapable of taking care of or thinking for herself. A good point overlooked.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 08 Feb 2009, 21:55

Markgway wrote:
grim_tales wrote:Compared to what Carol said, I find Clarksons' comments lighthearted, he only said what mist people were thinking I think it was out of order to make fun of his disability though.
Tell that to people with one eye.

As a Scot I don't give a fork about Clarkson. He's a two-eyed English idiot. So be it.

A black woman (no one famous) made the point that she was offended by white liberals being offended on her behalf as though she were incapable of taking care of or thinking for herself. A good point overlooked.

That's very often the case. People are always very eager to 'defend' other people, even when there's hardly any intention to harm/insult those people.

More than once I've had to defend innocent jokes/remarks about 'women' cause Brad was pulling it completely out of context and calling me a 'woman-hater' or whatever. Jokes you CAN make to, and around, women, apparently you cant make when Brad is around. (I think the last time was when I made a joke about his female friends being dressed up as angels or something... and he took it very personally and felt it was very insulting towards 'women')

Like I said, many people are way too easily offended, or THINK something must be very offensive, while they pull it out of context and neglect the intent behind it. TBH, most of the time I couldnt care less, but it can be tiring to have to explain yourself over and over again.

I think sometimes 'society' is trying to be TOO politically correct, and it just turns abit into hypocrisy.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 08 Feb 2009, 22:03

Good points Yi.

Poltical Correctness is insulting to everyone with a brain.

I draw the line at making jokes about people who can't defend themselves (like the mentally handicapped for example).