New Year Honours

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 31 Dec 2005, 09:52

Do you agree with them? I don't just mean who they should go to (though I will come to that) should they be given out to people who have done certain things? I suppose it depends what it is. Should they only be given for acts of bravery or courage or for something else?

On the Beatles recieving MBE's in 1965:

"All those people in the war got their medals for fighting, for killing people. We got ours for entertaining people. I think we deserve ours more, don't you?"
- John Lennon

Someone should really have said "sacrifice" to him, and that this is true heroism (would you die for your country?) but since Lennon was a pacifist and stark anti-war campaigner I can understand his mindset. Knowing what we know of course, The Beatles contribution to pop music cannot be underestimated. If all 4 members were still alive and not honoured, would they be so today?

....................

Back to 2006,

23 people (I think) who have worked in the aftermath of the 7/7 bombings (emergency services?) were given medals, which is well deserved IMO.

The England cricket team were given MBE's and Michael Vaughan got an OBE. I think an OBE is a bit OTT for some reason, not sure why but I always think pf an OBE going to an older person. Its' like Dame Kelly Holmes - no doubt she has done great work for athletics/sport etc, been a good role model and her achievements are fantastic (I don't have a problem with the awards going to those sort of people who entertain and inspire us, and I know you're going to disagree Mark old bean) - but Dame Kelly Holmes just sounds ridiculous.
Dame Judi Dench is a different matter. Is it because she's a lot older?

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 31 Dec 2005, 12:35

england cricket team winning medals for winning 2 games against the aussies,winning ashes they'll be giving back when soundly thrashed next winter down under :shock:

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 31 Dec 2005, 14:22

grim_tales wrote:Do you agree with them?

No. Next question.

Should they only be given for acts of bravery or courage or for something else?

I have no problem with awards for things like bravery and sacrifice but not Knighthoods and Dames and all that celebrity crap. Firemen and rescue workers, etc, I'm fine with that. I wouldn't call them Empire awards either... as Britain doesn't have one anymore.

"All those people in the war got their medals for fighting, for killing people. We got ours for entertaining people. I think we deserve ours more, don't you?" - John Lennon

One would hope and assume he was being sarcastic as usual.

but since Lennon was a pacifist and stark anti-war campaigner I can understand his mindset.

Yeah, but tell that to Hitler.

Knowing what we know of course, The Beatles contribution to pop music cannot be underestimated. If all 4 members were still alive and not honoured, would they be so today?

They're only musicians. I don't see why they should get anything beyond their fame and recognition.

le (I think) who have worked in the aftermath of the 7/7 bombings (emergency services?) were given medals, which is well deserved IMO.

That's fair.

England cricket team......

Yawn. Sorry, what happened? Did I doze off...?

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 31 Dec 2005, 16:53

Mark are you saying Hitler was a peace campaigner?

I don't understand.

"England cricket team.."

Yawn. Sorry, what happened? Did I doze off...?

Yeah, this is perhaps a bit OTT (I'm not really a fan of cricket but can appreciate their achievement). To be fair they did win 5 tests in a row before winning the Ashes but I don't think that merits MBE's IMO...

Perhaps Lennon was being sarcastic, he may have been, I'm not sure. I was only quoting him. Say, if all 4 were still alive now, I would have no problem with them being recognised. But were I alive in 1965 and I saw the band getting MBE's (they'd only been having hits since 1963) I'd raise my eyebrows.

I agree about the Empire thing, in fact I think that was why Benjamin Zephaniah (sp?) didnt accept his MBE as he said he didnt agree with slavery and what Britain did in the days of the Empire, or something like that.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 31 Dec 2005, 18:32

Sam you're probably right, we're gonna get our asses whupped in Australia

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 31 Dec 2005, 20:49

grim_tales wrote:Mark are you saying Hitler was a peace campaigner? I don't understand.

I don't understand what you don't understand???

Hitler a peace campaigner, eh?

My point was it would be easy for a know-it-all like Lennon to criticize soldiers for killing but if it weren't for their sacrifice we'd all be speaking German - not that any of us here would actually be alive. Let's face it whatever entertainment Lennon contributed to the world is of so little importance compared to the human sacrifices of war as to be indefinable.

None of these celebrities deserve honours. It's a big fucking joke at the public's expense.

Yeah, this is perhaps a bit OTT (I'm not really a fan of cricket but can appreciate their achievement). To be fair they did win 5 tests in a row before winning the Ashes but I don't think that merits MBE's IMO...

Sorry, Grim. But as a Scot I couldn't give a rat's arse about English Cricket. 8)

Perhaps Lennon was being sarcastic, he may have been, I'm not sure. I was only quoting him.

I hope so... he often was sarky when dealing with the establishment.

Say, if all 4 were still alive now, I would have no problem with them being recognised. But were I alive in 1965 and I saw the band getting MBE's (they'd only been having hits since 1963) I'd raise my eyebrows.

I still wouldn't give them any special treatment. They play songs. Big fucking deal. So do lots of people. When any of them cure cancer I'll pay attention.

I agree about the Empire thing, in fact I think that was why Benjamin Zephaniah (sp?) didnt accept his MBE as he said he didnt agree with slavery and what Britain did in the days of the Empire, or something like that.

Yeah, but he's an arse. A talentless fool.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 31 Dec 2005, 21:04

Fair enough, I didnt mean the sacrifices people made in war and the entertainment provided by the Beatles is on the same pedestal. But sometimes I feel most people get unnecessarily bitter when the list is announced, thats all.
I know lots of people play songs - do they all infleunce so many bands, set trends and give us classic songs? 8) The Beatles were a fantastic band who brought pleasure and joy to so many.
Whats' up with recognising say, Paul McCartney for his contribution to popular music?

IMO you can "contribute to society" in different ways. To say they were "just musicians" (blah, Bruce Lee was just a martial arts actor, Ronnie Barker was just a comedian

) is a narrow view IMO 8)

Do you agree with say the honorary award for Bob Geldof?
If awards ARE given out for entertainment ot whatever, they should only be given for people who have been in the business a long time.

Why is Zephaniah an arse?

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 31 Dec 2005, 21:35

yes and if sport is getting honours how the fuck did the arsenal ladies winger get an mbe when liverpool who brought the european cup home to england in the greatest final ever not even get a mention :x

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 31 Dec 2005, 22:51

Arsenal ladies winger?
I didnt know that Sam. Maybe they won the womens FA cup a record number of times or something

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 01 Jan 2006, 14:48

grim_tales wrote:But sometimes I feel most people get unnecessarily bitter when the list is announced, thats all.

Not really. None of the celebrities deserve their awards. Simple as that.

I know lots of people play songs - do they all infleunce so many bands, set trends and give us classic songs? 8) The Beatles were a fantastic band who brought pleasure and joy to so many.

That's not important in life. It's entertainment. These guys get industry awards and that's enough. We don't need the government puckering up. I'm not impressed.

Whats' up with recognising say, Paul McCartney for his contribution to popular music?

Nothing if you're MTV or VH1.

IMO you can "contribute to society" in different ways. To say they were "just musicians" (blah, Bruce Lee was just a martial arts actor, Ronnie Barker was just a comedian ) is a narrow view IMO 8)

I wouldn't have given Bruce Lee or Ronnie Barker knighthoods either. To me entertainment isn't a valid contribution to society. We can live wihtout entertainment. Can we live without doctors and scientists?

Do you agree with say the honorary award for Bob Geldof?

Geldof is overexposed but in his case it's slightly different as he is being recognised for charity work rather than music (just as well...)

Why is Zephaniah an arse?

Have you seen him on Question Time? If you can give me a single reason why his opinions are worth hearing or why he should be offered any kind of award I'll be glad to listen...

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 01 Jan 2006, 15:39

Mark wrote:

Geldof is overexposed but in his case it's slightly different as he is being recognised for charity work rather than music (just as well...)

..........

Fair enough. Thats what I was getting at.

Arise, Sir Bruce Lee.. ha ha!

I didnt mean give the guy a knighthood as such, but I think he was honoured with a statue in Hong Kong on what would have been his 65th birthday.

I know we can "live without entertainment" but the world would be very dull and surely you can agree that (for example) Bruce was one of the most iconic figures in martial arts cinema? 8) If you dont think a person such as he should be recognised (ie given awards), they should at least be revered as doing something special in their field IMO.
I never said that we could live without scientists and doctors

, but they've been honoured by the monarch of the day too - Sir Issac Newton for one.

Ronnie Barker wasnt given a knighthood, David Jason was. Barker was a fantastic comic actor and writer (before he died, he got an OBE - I think?) I acknowledge his contribution to comedy

Havent really seen Ben on Question Time, I knew him best when I was younger (he was a kids' poet then).

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 01 Jan 2006, 19:50

grim_tales wrote:I know we can "live without entertainment" but the world would be very dull and surely you can agree that (for example) Bruce was one of the most iconic figures in martial arts cinema? 8) If you dont think a person such as he should be recognised (ie given awards), they should at least be revered as doing something special in their field IMO.

I don't have a problem with recognition or even a sensible level of reverence but I don't believe the government should be handing out titles and awards to famous entertainers who are extremelywell-paid for what they do. Bruce was a phenomenal martial artist but I'm not sure what you're trying to say really?

I never said that we could live without scientists and doctors , but they've been honoured by the monarch of the day too - Sir Issac Newton for one.

And I have no beef with that...

Ronnie Barker wasnt given a knighthood, David Jason was. Barker was a fantastic comic actor and writer (before he died, he got an OBE - I think?) I acknowledge his contribution to comedy

Yeah, he was a fine comic talent, but is it necessary to give him or anyone an order or peerage to prove it? Isn't that what the bloody Baftas are for?

Havent really seen Ben on Question Time, I knew him best when I was younger (he was a kids' poet then).

I'm having a hard time alligning the words kids and poet in the same sentence.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 01 Jan 2006, 20:35

No, its not always neccessary to give out peerages to entetainers (depends who they are though?) Dame Judi Dench sounds much better than Dame Kelly Holmes

Here's an interesting one - in the 16th century, Drake was knighted for his round the world voyage. Is it right for Ellen MCCarthur (sp?) to be made a Dame for this? Tis a fantastic achievement to be sure, going round the world anyway let alone breaking the speed record on top of that.

But whether they (entertainers) get CBE's etc or not, they have their place in the world as much as anything else.

Brad where are you?

I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 02 Jan 2006, 00:40

Grim, you're too in awe of famous people.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 02 Jan 2006, 14:38

You may be right, I'm not sure why that is?

I'm sorry

I draw the line at those vacuous twats who go on I'm A Celebrity, Big Brother etc though, theyre not celebrities IMO.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 02 Jan 2006, 15:05

Celebrities are no more deserving of Knighthoods than you or I, Grim, or even Romero. 8)

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 02 Jan 2006, 15:06

Bullets 'n' Babes

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