Inferior director's/extended cuts of films?

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 02 Apr 2006, 18:05

Aye after sitting through Musa, I can understand that longer does not necessarily mean better (I meant in terms of movie runtimes you pervs). Let's list films, which you think are better in their shorter or original theatrical forms. Remember that sometimes the director's cut results in a shorter runtime - i.e. Alexander, Shiri.

Appocalypse Now (Redux version is a snore fest)
American Wedding (The bachelor party scene is now way too long and unfunny)

I've only seen the DC of the following but I've a feeling that the shorter prints will be better:

Musa
Volcano High

I've only seen My Sassy Girl once and that was the director's cut. I felt fine watching that but I'm not sure how I would feel if I watched it again.

ReconFive · Post by **ReconFive** » 02 Apr 2006, 18:18

Honestly the only ones i can think of are the ones you've mentioned. Musa is the first film that comes to mind, the international cut is so much better.

I've only seen the directors cut of MSG as well, but i have read detailed summaries of the new scenes and added music. I have no doubt its the better version.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 02 Apr 2006, 18:32

The international cut of Volcano High is awful. All the good scenes are cut. The international version tries to make it look like an action film (it's a comedy).

I prefer the DC of Musa because it adds character development. In the International Cut, the action/dialogue ratio is all wrong.

Films that (IMO) could work better without extended cuts:
-Dances with Wolves.
-Police Story 2 (although I like the added scenes).
-Terminator 2.
-Underworld.
-The Two Towers.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 02 Apr 2006, 19:23

-Dances with Wolves.
-Terminator 2.
-Underworld.
-The Two Towers.

are all much better in longer cuts

some by miles!

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 02 Apr 2006, 20:21

Ah but this is Tom. He loves the films even you hate Romero.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 02 Apr 2006, 20:24

Better in their theatrical versions:

The Exorcist
The Frighteners
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
Lethal Weapon 2
Lethal Weapon 3
Leon
Mallrats

Longer versions I like:

The Abyss - 172m
Aliens - 154m
Dawn of the Dead - 140m
J.F.K - 206m
Terminator 2 - 153m

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 02 Apr 2006, 20:30

How about "Hero"? I liked the director's cut a lot more.

Oh, and can't believe no one has mentioned "Daredevil", yet. The director's cut became so much of a better movie. I didn't want to watch this at first, because I disliked the theatrical cut. It was when a friend of mine advised me to go and watch the director's cut. Well, I'm happy to own it on DVD now.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 02 Apr 2006, 20:39

Is the theatrical version of Leon the one INCLUDING the cush of Nathalie on Jean Reno? The american DVD has the longer cut, right? I've read both versions are very good, athough it also really changes the movie a bit, so it becomes like 2 different movies?

I've only seen the short version, which was a good movie... but I'd love to see the longer cut... (although not enough to make me import it)

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 02 Apr 2006, 20:46

The longer cut of "Léon" is definitely the version to go for in my opinion. The scenes in which Léon and Mathilda go out on cleaning jobs together in which he teaches her are priceless.

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 02 Apr 2006, 21:40

Markgway wrote:Better in their theatrical versions:
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Yes, you are totally 100% correct. I've gone off the S.E. re-release as the extra scenes are unnecessary. Also give me the original English mono track over a dodgy 5.1 mix any day. The theatrical version is perfect as it is.

thelostdragon wrote:How about "Hero"? I liked the director's cut a lot more.

Oh, and can't believe no one has mentioned "Daredevil", yet. The director's cut became so much of a better movie. I didn't want to watch this at first, because I disliked the theatrical cut. It was when a friend of mine advised me to go and watch the director's cut. Well, I'm happy to own it on DVD now.

Cheers for the Daredevil info. Many have said that it's a completely different film. However I'm more interested in director's cuts/extended editions, which you consider to be weaker.

Yi-Long wrote:Is the theatrical version of Leon the one INCLUDING the cush of Nathalie on Jean Reno? The american DVD has the longer cut, right? I've read both versions are very good, athough it also really changes the movie a bit, so it becomes like 2 different movies?

I've only seen the short version, which was a good movie... but I'd love to see the longer cut... (although not enough to make me import it)

The theatrical version EXCLUDES the crush and is shorter. I have to disagree with Mark on this one, I feel that the longer version is more fulfilling.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 02 Apr 2006, 22:03

I'm with Bisc here. I prefer the longer cut of Léon, because it allows one to spend more time with the characters.

However, as much as I like the scene with sentry guns in Aliens, the extended scenes raise more questions than provide answers. Like, why has photography technology regressed?

And why do the marines need the hypersleep chambers if they're only a little way away from LV-426?

I generally feel that James Cameron releases the best version of his films first, which is why he classifies them as special editions. T2 works much better without the extra bits (although they are very interesting to watch). Director's cut usually refers to a Blade Runner scenario, where the original film was messed about without Ridley Scott's approval.

Of course, the biggest culprit for being a poor extended cut has to be Star Wars. Greedo shooting first, honestly...

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 02 Apr 2006, 22:05

T2 works much better without the extra bits

Thank you !

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 02 Apr 2006, 22:22

Mannn... now i REALLY want to see the extended cut of Leon...

I hope they will finally release a decent region 2 DVD (2 discs hopefully) of this one of these days.

gasteropod · Post by **gasteropod** » 03 Apr 2006, 00:16

Police Story: Part II, extended cut is inferior. The pacing is damaged.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 03 Apr 2006, 00:24

Aliens - the SE includes an explaination for what happened to Ripley's daughter on earth, which is the whole springboard for her mothering of Newt. How can you not miss that?

Cameron is one of the few directors whose SEs are worthy.

The extra character in Leon SE was interesting, but it tipped the balance away from being a thriller, with more humour than I was comfortable with. It just felt like the added scenes didn't really need to be there for the film to work. The theatrical cut is a tighter, sharper movie IMO. ANYONE agree???

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 03 Apr 2006, 01:21

Perhaps you're right on the mothering aspect, but it slows the film down a great deal with not a lot of benefit; Ripley can easily become a parental figure (as she does in the theatrical version) to Newt, without the need to have a child that died whilst she was in hypersleep.

I think we reverse our opinions on these two films: I prefer the shorter version of Aliens and the longer cut of Léon, whereas you prefer it the other way around!

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 03 Apr 2006, 06:42

On the fence:-
Aliens and T2 - TCs have far superior pacing, SEs have superior character development.

Better in extended form:-
Alien 3 - The TC is a mangled mess, the Extended cut is actually coherent.
Leon - DC is full of sentiment which actually WORKS, unlike Woo's The Killer.
Doom - the FPS sequence is longer, one of the few good parts of the film.

Better in theatrical form:-
Alien - the alien is shown far more in the 2003 Alternative cut, which slightly ruins the film.
Gladiator - Everything that needs to be said is done so in the TC, no need for a more bloated version.

Probably better in theatrical form (only seen the extended ver.):-
Apocalypse Now

HungFist · Post by **HungFist** » 03 Apr 2006, 14:38

Markgway wrote:The theatrical cut is a tighter, sharper movie IMO. ANYONE agree???

No. I have only seen the longer cut, and I was horrified when I found out there is also a shorter cut which is missing the plot...

Extended/Special versions I like:
The Killer ("Taiwanese cut")
My Sassy Girl (DC)
Battle Roayle (DC)
A Bittersweet Life (DC)
Sympathy for Lady Vengeance (b&w)
Kill Bill Vol. 1 (JP)

Better in their original form:
Return of the King
Police Story 2
Kill Bill Vol. 2
Dawn of the Dead (remake)

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 03 Apr 2006, 14:49

Kill Bill Volume 2 has an extended version? What does it add? I've only seen the theatrical release...

My Sassy Girl: I've only seen the DC, and I cant even imagine cutting ANYTHING from that movie. It's a brilliant movie.
Same thing with Battle Royale: only seen the DC and it's great. Why would anyone want to cut stuff out?

Is the B&W version of Lady Vengeance also LONGER? Or is the only difference the colour?

HungFist · Post by **HungFist** » 03 Apr 2006, 15:05

Yi-Long wrote:Kill Bill Volume 2 has an extended version? What does it add? I've only seen the theatrical release...

The Esteban scene is about one minute longer. There's no extra dialogue, just some new shots of the area and camera panning around. The new footage is not really needed, and it makes the scene slightly inferior. I suspect the new footage was only added to make it officially a different version (maybe related to the fact that Tarantino owns rights to the Japanese cut of Vol.1, while Miramax owns the western versions)

Yi-Long wrote: My Sassy Girl: I've only seen the DC, and I cant even imagine cutting ANYTHING from that movie. It's a brilliant movie.

Totally agreed

Yi-Long wrote: Same thing with Battle Royale: only seen the DC and it's great. Why would anyone want to cut stuff out?

The ending is actually worse. The theatrical cut ends with SPOILER the kids running away, while the DC adds a couple of dream sequences END OF SPOILER

Yi-Long wrote: Is the B&W version of Lady Vengeance also LONGER? Or is the only difference the colour?

The lenght is the exact same (I even authored my own dvd using video from disc 2 and audio from disc 1 (as I can't play DTS) and it worked out perfectly))

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 03 Apr 2006, 16:56

HungFist wrote:No. I have only seen the longer cut [of LEON], and I was horrified when I found out there is also a shorter cut which is missing the plot...

It's not missing plot as such, I mean the narrative is basically the same, it just cuts down on the characterization and episodes. It seems most here prefer the extended print, but I prefer the theatrical cut for the reasons I previously outlined. If you get the excellent Korean DVD you can have both (and a better picture).

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 03 Apr 2006, 17:38

The differences between the theatrical and director's cuts of Bittersweet Life are so minor, I'd say they were negligable. Just IMO though.

HungFist · Post by **HungFist** » 03 Apr 2006, 17:59

BiscLimpkit wrote:The differences between the theatrical and director's cuts of Bittersweet Life are so minor, I'd say they were negligable. Just IMO though.

I only noticed one difference (the corridor scene) but that makes a huge difference for me. My favourite scene in the film was totally ruined by the terrible music. I was so disappointed when I saw the theatrical cut at a movie festival (it was also missing the great colors of the korean dvd, but that's probably due to a bad print...)

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 03 Apr 2006, 18:25

Leon is even better extended, I recently watched it again and its still amazing.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 03 Apr 2006, 19:30

My go, my go:

Films that work better in their extended form:

Leon: It makes the Theatrical Cut completely and utterly redundant. This IS the only cut worth seeing.

Dances with Wolves: Is greatly enhanced in it's longer form, adding much more depth to an already great film.

Terminator 2: The best cut of this doesn't actually exist. It would be the Special Edition but with the T1000 searching John Connor's room scene added in (why was that not included?). The second extended cut if you will has an AWFUL ending which completely kills the tone of the film so I'll always opt for the Special Edition which makes a very good film great.

ALL the LOTR: Extended Cuts: They work great in their Theatrical Cut forms but even better in their Extended Cut forms.

The Exorcist: This is supposed to be scary right? What an overrated film, decent but hardly scary. The ONLY scary scene was cut, that being the Spider scene.

Battle Royal: Except for the extended ending (it should've stopped when the Theatrical Cut did) it's otherwise a much better film.

Films that work better in their shorter form:

Musa: I saw the Director's Cut first and enjoyed it but felt the pacing was off. I later saw the International Cut and yes it would've been better if the Director had chosen what to cut but in what it got is much better paced.

Afterwards I watched the cut scenes and only 1 I thought shouldn't have been cut otherwise the cut footage adds little to the film and hampers the pace. It takes to long to get moving in it's uncut form.

Blade Runner: Despite all I was lead to believe there is little difference between the Theatrical and Director's Cut but yes the Director's Cut turns it from a very good to outstanding film.

Alexander: I know I stand pretty much alone in saying Alexander Theatrical Cut while flawed is still a really good epic. Not even close to Gladiator of course but definitely better than Troy and even Kingdom of Heaven (in it's current form).

The Director's Cut however is a mess and all the messing with the plot structure really pissed me off.

Films I simply cannot choose on:

Donnie Darko: Both cuts work as well to each other IMO. Many have said the Director's Cut answers all the questions and leaves nothing left for confusion.

Bollocks I was as confused the second time as the first. I really can't decide which I prefer, both are great. I own both DVDs because I really don't know which to get rid of.

Hero: Like DD both cuts work for me, there isn't much difference. I've opted to keep the Director's Cut as it's closer to how it was meant to be shown and probably has the edge but not by much.

Kill Bill Vol. 1 - Yeah the Japanese cut is probably better but in honesty I think it works both ways. For different reasons.

Films I've only seen one cut of:

Apocalypse Now Redux - I saw the Redux version in the cinema a few years ago and was blown away - WOW. I've only seen this cut and bar possibly the French plantation addition I thought it worked fine. I have the Theatrical Cut on DVD and need to give it a try.

American Wedding - I assume you mean the Fincher dance off? That is the ONLY good gag in otherwise an AWFUL film.

Volcano High - I've only seen the Director's Cut and I very much agree it's a comedy but considering I thought it was mostly a load of drivel I would actually give the International Cut a try. The Director's Cut is mostly awful, easily the worst Korean film I've seen.

My Sassy Girl - I've seen the Director's Cut twice, the first time in the cinema and laughed my ass off. The second time it was still good fun but not near as funny. Still I don't think it needs cutting.

In the International Cut, the action/dialogue ratio is all wrong.

Bollocks IMO

. 20-25 minutes is cut from a 150 minute run time there is still plenty of dialogue moments. Not all character development is needed.

Markgway wrote:Better in their theatrical versions:
Leon

Holy Shit. I never ever thought someone would prefer the Theatrical Cut.

When Leon and Matilda went on those hits, genius

Yi-Long wrote:Mannn... now i REALLY want to see the extended cut of Leon...
I hope they will finally release a decent region 2 DVD (2 discs hopefully) of this one of these days.

It's SOOO much better but sadly I don't think we'll be seeing a decent European R2 DVD anytime soon (I think Germany has a decent DVD). The UK R2 at least is a rubbish Universal Theatrical Cut only DVD.

The Korean SE includes both cuts but for me the R1 SB Deluxe is fine as like I said the Theatrical Cut is pointless.

Yi-Long wrote:Same thing with Battle Royale: only seen the DC and it's great. Why would anyone want to cut stuff out??

Two points:

1. It's NOT the Director's Cut it's an Extended Cut. The DC tag is unofficial. Although he went back to change things so it maybe unofficially the DC.
2. The Theatrical Cut is not cut in the way you imply at all. The Extended Cut is simply that Extended/Altered.

HungFist wrote:The lenght is the exact same (I even authored my own dvd using video from disc 2 and audio from disc 1 (as I can't play DTS) and it worked out perfectly))

What software did you use? Is it easy to do?

I can play DTS fine but I was thinking for lending a Fade to Black version I'd like a 5.1 or 2.0 version.