Arsenal through to Champions League final

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 26 Apr 2006, 08:25

As the title says....

Can't wait for the final, should be a great game. Arsenal didnt play well last night, but they got the result they needed so who cares

Good saves from Lehmann (the penalty from Requelme - sp?)

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 26 Apr 2006, 21:48

True, it was a good save, but it was also a poor penalty. But, I'd rather Arsenal go through to the final, than Villareal.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 27 Apr 2006, 07:12

Yeah you're right, it wasnt a good pen.
They (Arsenal) play Barca in the Final.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 27 Apr 2006, 15:50

I'll be rooting for Arsenal. My Dad likes them.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 27 Apr 2006, 18:17

I'll be rooting for Arenal IF Dennis plays and they play attacking daring football.
If they play like they did against Villa Real (cowardly) and Wenger decides to not field Bergkamp even though he is their greatest player ever, then I'll just be for the team that plays the most attractive and ambitious football.

But if Bergy plays, I'm obviously rooting for Arsenal.

Gawd... I hope Reyes, Ljungberg, and a couple of others all break their legs or something the coming weeks, so Wenger cant screw Dennis over again.

brooce-leroy · Post by **brooce-leroy** » 28 Apr 2006, 00:42

Dennis is, like, 40. You can't expect more than a cameo at best.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 28 Apr 2006, 08:40

Yeah, fair enough Bruce.
Somehow I doubt they'll be cowardly - we know how dangerous Barca are and how good Ronaldinho etc are. So playing for a draw or whatever just wont work.
I think Bergkamp is 37/38-ish

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 28 Apr 2006, 12:21

Dennis is almost 37 I believe, and still in great shape.
He's never been a player that relies on speed or strenght, but on agilty, vision, intelligence and technique: those don't fall apart when you get older. Perhaps even the opposite. I feel he is still, even at his age, one of the very best players in the PL, IF he plays. It's not like old times where football-players didnt take care of their bodies. He has always taken very good care of his fitness and body, and has never relaly had any major injuries, so he might be old, but he's still very fit.

It's just Wenger's prejudice against older players which means Dennis doesnt get to play much.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 17 May 2006, 08:07

I accept what you're saying about Bergkamp, in terms of his vision etc. but seriously, he is a lot older than the defenders he's going to be facing up to, and strength and pace are vital components to any forward. If you're lacking (relatively speaking) going up against the likes of Puyol, you will get shut out.

For the record, I do rate Bergkamp as one of the greats. Genius player.

I can't wait for tonight

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 17 May 2006, 11:15

dennis doesn't play much in europe because he won't fly anywhere! i hope arsenal do it,they are capable but barca on their day are awesome.having said that,they haven't been playing well lately.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 17 May 2006, 11:18

Yeah, but how many times can you remember Bergkamp EVER being shut down? his positioning is outstanding, and he hardly ever gets fouled, unless he starts dribling.
Which is why he is perfectly suited against this opponent. Barca has one of the best and strongest defences in europe today (in the CL at least), so guys like Ljungberg and Reyes they are used to and can easily defend against. Bergkamp can split that defence and reach Henry. I think it's way better to field Bergkamp instead of Freddie or Reyes, simply because they are too straightforward to defence against (good speed, good driblers...)

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 17 May 2006, 12:17

Couldnt he take the Eurostar to Paris?

I do get annoyed when people moan about the lack of English players in the team, so what?

Most of the Arsenal team could come from Mars and I wouldnt care, so long as they win

Basically I dont care where my team are from!

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 17 May 2006, 13:34

grim_tales wrote:Couldnt he take the Eurostar to Paris?

I do get annoyed when people moan about the lack of English players in the team, so what? Most of the Arsenal team could come from Mars and I wouldnt care, so long as they win Basically I dont care where my team are from!

I dont care about 'winning' as much as I care about HOW they play (and win)
I'd rather see a team play positive, attractive, attacking football, instead of lazy defensive counterfootball. I dont give a shit about a team that plays like that.
Like you, I also dont give a shit about where a player comes from. i just look at his personality and the way he plays. If an English player is good enough, he'll make the team. If not, he should work and train harder. Simple.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 17 May 2006, 13:54

Henry said winning is the most important thing tonight, though of course I want to see Arsenal and Barcelona play free flowing, attacking football

Will Henry stay or go depending on what happens tonight?
Personally I really hope he does stay, would be a great loss for Arsenal and football if he goes IMO.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 17 May 2006, 14:37

Well... Barca's coach Rijkaard and his assistent ten cate look set to leave Barca. Ten Cate leaving is 99% certain (AJAX), and Rijkaard leaving are still just rumours.
I think Henry would wait and see who would follow them up.

If Arsenal play only for the win again tonight, with bad football, like they did against Villa Real, I'll be rooting for Barca (if they DO play positive, attractive football ofcourse)

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 17 May 2006, 15:01

"Play only for the win" - eh? To win they must play attacking football. The villareal game wasnt pretty, it would of been better if there hadnt been so much cheating by the Villareal players.
I'm sure itll be a great game.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 17 May 2006, 18:46

Having just seen both line-ups and formations, I think Van Bommel will score for Barca. he's rightfooted, playing just behind Ronaldinho who will be guarded closely, so he'll be getting a couple of shooting opportunities, of which one should go in, considering his good kicking ability.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 17 May 2006, 19:26

1-0 Arsenal, by Cambell.

I wouldnt be surprised if they would now fuck it up, as Wenger is known to go defensive in these kind of situations. I hope I'm wrong though.

bad refereeing btw. Lehman sent of, but should have been a goal. Should have been a red for eboue, and the free kick from which cambell scored, was a dive by Eboue, so should have been a second yellow.
He's really making a mark on this game (the ref)

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 17 May 2006, 21:04

2-1 barca. Wenger did exactly as I expected: played defensively, and Henry not having enough support. freddie was horrible, as I had predicted, and hardly a match for the Barca defence.
Extremely bad referee, but Arsenal has no right to complain, as Barca was worse of when it came to bad decisions.

Wenger fucked it up.
Why was Fabregas even taken of? And why was Flamini brought on? Fabregas wasnt injured, was he? Was this just a 'showy' substitution? 'I cant take one of my best players off!' statement by Wenger?

I feel sad Arsenal lost, and that Bergkamp didnt get the playingtime and trophy he deserved, but Wenger deserves this. What a fucking useless cowardly bastard.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 17 May 2006, 21:37

I was sad Arsenal lost - unlucky IMO, the ref was shit.
Wasnt Barca's first goal offside??

Arsenal deserved credit for how they played, of course they had to play defensively to some extent, they were down to 10 men for fecks sake, they held out for an hour which is very good.
It would of been a better game if Arsenal had gone 1-0 down and it was 11 v 11. Also Henry missed 2 super chances to make it 2-0

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 17 May 2006, 22:28

very harsh to be slating wenger like that yi-long after all he's done for the gunners :shock:

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 17 May 2006, 22:32

He's done alot for the gunners, making them play attractive football, and making the young talents better.
However, he's never been a good tactician, often making (clearly) wrong decisions, and asking his team, who normally ALWAYS play attacking and positive football, to now play defensively (as he often makes them play defensively in important matches), is just a very simple and dumb mistake.
I'd motivate my opinion a lot more, but I'm alreadty doing the exact same on the PESINSIGHT forum, so if you really wanna know all my thoughts on this, you should head there I guess...
I believe some of them are pretty mad at me as well

http://www.pesinsight.com/showthread.php?t=38091

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 18 May 2006, 08:22

I agree with Saltysam. Hard luck Arsenal

What were they supposed to do? They worked extremely hard to stop Barca scoring, and broke when they could. Though I suspect Lehmann wouldnt have leaked those 2 goals.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 18 May 2006, 08:51

Well, by going into a 4-4-1 formation, they fave Barca room to go forward and attack. By letting henry alone on an island upfront, they were just gaining the ball back from Barca, pumping it upfront, and obviously giving back the ball to Barca, so they can attack AGIAN, etc etc. Ofcourse you are going to wear yourself out like that.

In the link I gave I have explained the whole 10 men against 11 thing alot more clearly, and how Arsenal could have still turned the situation in a better one then they did... (Wenger kept playing Freddy ion the side, where he was wasted, instead of just going to a 4-3-2 formation with freddie right behind Henry, thus being a connection between midfield and forward.
I explained it much better in the other thread, and if I had a schoolboard, I could even more easily explain it. It just comes from years and years of Cruyff indoctrination

It wasnt suprising seeing Wenger making that mistake. he's often made simular mistakes in likewise important matches, and in some cases where Arsenal lost a player...

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 18 May 2006, 09:16

Gutted, proud of Arsenal though.
Getting to the final is still great. I still think you're being very harsh Yi, after all the manager has done!

they did not just sit on a one-nil lead, they did break and have chances (they should have finished them off though), but surely you should congratulate them for a solid defensive display with 10 men - did you not see Fabregas go off because he was clearly bushed. The likes of Ljungberg worked their arses off too, causing Barca trouble. If your team was 1-0 up with 15 mins left, how would you play???
As I say they did try to kill the game but were clearly knackered.