Batman Begins: UK Cuts?

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 27 Jun 2006, 22:27

From the IMDB:

The UK versions have the sound effects of numerous headbutts toned down in volume to achieve a 12 rating.

Is this right?

I have the R2 and don't recall any sound dips.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 27 Jun 2006, 23:35

Me neither. Who knows. I'm sure I even remember hearing headbutts.

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 27 Jun 2006, 23:54

There were head-butts in BB? I couldn't make out anything in those badly filmed fights. Still love the film, though. Gave it a 4/5.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 28 Jun 2006, 00:19

It was a pretty decent movie as far as superhero movies go, but personally I much prefer the Animated Series.
Batman Begins did come very close to also capturing that specific setting though...

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 28 Jun 2006, 08:34

The BBFC don't mention any pre-cuts or any cuts they made to the film. Hmm...

gasteropod · Post by **gasteropod** » 28 Jun 2006, 09:11

Uhhh, I hope not. I own the R2 and I just won't be able to live with it if those cuts are true.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 28 Jun 2006, 18:42

I too loved Batman Begins but thought the enemy was weak and it spent to long building up Batman. Both should be rectified if/when the sequel comes.

I want a villain in a super hero film to be a super villain if you will not a human with a grudge.

gasteropod · Post by **gasteropod** » 28 Jun 2006, 19:18

Rah's al Ghul or however you spell it is Batman's most powerful enemy so I don't see how he was weak. And it won't take long building up to Batman in the sequel because he's already become Batman lol. Joker's in the sequel.

IronMonkey · Post by **IronMonkey** » 28 Jun 2006, 19:26

bradavon wrote:I too loved Batman Begins but thought the enemy was weak and it spent to long building up Batman. Both should be rectified if/when the sequel comes.

I thought the whole point of Batman Begins is that they spent time crafting the character for the big screen. I thought it was very well done and it didn't feel slow to me at all.

As for the enemy being weak, I don't agree with that. Ra's Al Ghul is a very strong character & also an intelligent character. So many comic book films have stupid hokey characters like Mr Freeze or Poison Ivy from Batman & Robin (I hate that film!).

I thought it was a refreshing change to have a more realistic enemy like Ra's Al Ghul. I loved the film & can't wait for the sequel.

As for the UK DVD, well I have the Region 2/5 version from CD-Wow & I'm in the same boat as gasteropod - if it features any kind of edits then I will have to get rid of it & buy the R1 version!

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 28 Jun 2006, 19:50

Mark, I wouldn't take what imdb say as gospel truth. Ultimately, it's updated by regular internet users - especially the trivia and alternate version sections. I've spotted a few errors on imdb from time to time.

If the BBFC website and DVDcompare don't mention anything, I think it's safe to assume that imdb are telling porkies and are porking each other.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 28 Jun 2006, 20:58

IronMonkey wrote:I thought the whole point of Batman Begins is that they spent time crafting the character for the big screen. I thought it was very well done and it didn't feel slow to me at all.

Of course but for the whole first hour? I wouldn't have minded but that Asian out-back setting was silly.

IronMonkey wrote:Ra's Al Ghul is a very strong character & also an intelligent character.

Agreed.

IronMonkey wrote:if it features any kind of edits then I will have to get rid of it & buy the R1 version!

No offence but that's silly when you've not even noticed the cuts and I doubt you ever would if it hadn't been pointed out to you. Besides I don't even think it is cut.

IronMonkey · Post by **IronMonkey** » 28 Jun 2006, 21:32

bradavon wrote:Of course but for the whole first hour? I wouldn't have minded but that Asian out-back setting was silly.

Why?

bradavon wrote:No offence but that's silly when you've not even noticed the cuts and I doubt you ever would if it hadn't been pointed out to you. Besides I don't even think it is cut.

If I know a film is cut, I don't want to watch that version. Simple as that. Its like when you don't notice or mind that the sound effects are different on the 5.1 track on The Terminator & I hate it - each to their own.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 28 Jun 2006, 21:35

I liked the fact that the villain was real instead of some cartoon psycho with a complex. Otherwise you get Batman & Robin again. Yeucch!

From the SBBFC (educational subsite):

"Another film in which the sound editing was altered following an advice viewing was Christopher Nolan’s 2005 prequel Batman Begins. The sounds of crunchy implied headbutts were reduced to lessen the impact of the violence which enabled the work to be granted a 12A certificate."

When I saw this theatrically the headbutts were "crunchy" so this must be a mistake... unless they were REALLY LOUD in the American version?

I'll re-check my DVD.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 28 Jun 2006, 21:51

I took a quick look at my R2 DVD (2-disc edition)

I only recall 3 headbutts.

One during the fight in the Chinese prison. SOUND DIDN'T SEEM TO DIP, WAS THUDDING.

The second when Liam Neeson first beats up Bruce Wayne after he arrives at the mountain top. NOT QUITE AS LOUD, BUT AUDIBLE.

The third when Batman grabs Tom Wilkinson through the car top and butts him unconsious. A BONE CRUNCHER, IF SOUND WAS CUT THEY DIDN'T DO A GOOD JOB.

Any I missed...?

The film should've been a '15' IMO.

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 28 Jun 2006, 22:04

Hmmm nah I still don't buy it. I'll only believe if it if someone from the BBFC personally visits me to confirm it.

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 28 Jun 2006, 22:29

bradavon wrote:...it spent to long building up Batman.

That's the whole point of "Batman Begins". I think the weakest parts of the film are these that take place when Wayne dresses up as Batman. That doesn't make the scenes bad. They are just the weakest ones of the wonderful story.

Have you read "Batman: Year One", Brad?

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 28 Jun 2006, 23:51

I didnt mind the asian outbacking, although in the comics, Bruce Wayne goes to Japan to learn and hone his martial arts skills I believe. But I think they mention him having learned multiple martial arts from multiple teachers, though I'm not 100% sure as they occasionally seem to change things a bit...

I also didnt mind the villain, but I'm not a big fan of Liam Neeson. In my mind Batman has many MANY interesting foes and they're all cool.
Even Mr Freeze and Poison Ivy. HOWEVER... they do need to be written in the right way. Mr. Freeze is a tragic scientist who went mad cause his lover died or something. Poison Ivy is an Eco-Terrorist.
I like catwoman and the Penguing and the Joker. Perhaps the only foe I dont like would be The Riddler, although even he has had some good stories...

Batman Year One is a great book. Perhaps not as earth-shatteringly brilliant as The Dark Knight Returns, but still awesome. Very realistic, very down to earth. I'm not the biggest fan of the art-work though...

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 29 Jun 2006, 01:37

BiscLimpkit wrote:Hmmm nah I still don't buy it. I'll only believe if it if someone from the BBFC personally visits me to confirm it.

Why don't you ask?

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 29 Jun 2006, 11:39

Batman Begins has been the best live-action adaptation of Batman thus far. It was actually about Batman, not some outlandish villains with Batman being a secondary character/2-dimensional cut-out like he was in the Burton/Shumacher films.

Yi-Long wrote:Mr. Freeze is a tragic scientist who went mad cause his lover died or something.

They retconned that origin in the comic; that Freeze origin story originated from the fantastic Dini/Timm cartoon.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 29 Jun 2006, 20:02

Retconned?

IronMonkey wrote:
bradavon wrote:Of course but for the whole first hour? I wouldn't have minded but that Asian out-back setting was silly.
Why?

Because it was just stupid to me the whole setting. Bruce Wayne finding himself in some Asian out-back setting. That's been done loads of times before.

IronMonkey wrote:Simple as that. Its like when you don't notice or mind that the sound effects are different on the 5.1 track on The Terminator & I hate it - each to their own.

True EXCEPT if the foley effects stood out for me and I hated it then it would bother me. My point was that you can't even spot the cuts (if they exist which I don't believe thy do).

That was more my point.

Markgway wrote:I liked the fact that the villain was real instead of some cartoon psycho with a complex. Otherwise you get Batman & Robin again. Yeucch!

Nope you'll get Batman: The Movie. The Joker in that was awesome, just how a super villain should be.

thelostdragon wrote:Have you read "Batman: Year One", Brad?

Nope. I don't really read comics any more tbh.

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 29 Jun 2006, 22:00

Markgway wrote: Why don't you ask?

That's a great idea. Do you have a source website (apart from imdb)?

Cheers min.

Edit: it's ok, found it.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 29 Jun 2006, 23:47

http://www.bbfc.co.uk/general/contact.php

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 30 Jun 2006, 01:52

bradavon wrote:Retconned?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retcon

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 30 Jun 2006, 08:55

bradavon wrote:Because it was just stupid to me the whole setting. Bruce Wayne finding himself in some Asian out-back setting. That's been done loads of times before.

Huh? Where has that been done before? Actually, "Batman Begins" is the very first Batman-film that tell us Bruce Wayne's story including his journey to Asia, which he does in the original comic book.

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 01 Sep 2006, 15:24

This film has NOT been censored in any shape or form in the UK according to here:

http://www.melonfarmers.co.uk/latest.htm

[quote]2005 US/UK action film by Christopher Nolan (Warner Home Video)

From SBBFC

The sound editing was altered following a BBFC 'advice viewing'. The sounds of crunchy implied headbutts were reduced to lessen the impact of the violence which enabled the work to be granted a 12A certificate.

Thanks to Gavin

My friends and I checked with the BBFC and the film is definitely NOT cut in any way. The info on SBBFC is incorrect. Just to be clear - the UK version is NOT edited, and all sound effects are loud and clear. I have also compared the waveforms of the R2 DVD to the R1 edition and they are identical.
[/quote

Just as I thought. I knew I was right from the very beginning tbh.