Israel Seals Off Lebanon amid Bombing Raids

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 19 Jul 2006, 09:46

No matter if they were millions or billions, if they deserve a country out of compensation it should have been given to them in Germany.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 19 Jul 2006, 09:55

Is an "illegal war" somehow worse for suffering than a "legal" one?

Why do people use that term?

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 19 Jul 2006, 09:55

Shen wrote:(man im so going to jail if i were in central europe )

Yup, that's true even though we are supposed to have freedom of speech here.

Let me calculate...

1939 - 1945 = 6 years = 6 x 365 = 2190 days.

6.000.000 killed Jews / 2190 = about 2740.

As we all know, Jews weren't the only people that were killed and held in concentration camps, although the majority. Foreigners, handicapped people, communists etc. etc!

Does that mean that EVERY SINGLE day in this damn war, they had to kill about 3000 people in those camps in order to reach such a high sum of killed Jews?

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 19 Jul 2006, 10:00

You may be out on some days LD, there could be leap years there

Not that would make a lot of difference, as to the numbers - well, though history says 6m that doesnt mean a set number were killed per day or whatever. Let's just say: a lot.

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 19 Jul 2006, 10:04

grim_tales wrote:Let's just say: a lot.

Which then again makes my opinion:

No matter if they were millions or billions, if they deserve a country out of compensation it should have been given to them in Germany.

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 19 Jul 2006, 10:07

grim_tales wrote:Is an "illegal war" somehow worse for suffering than a "legal" one? Why do people use that term?

how can war be legal? murder isnt so therefore war isnt, thts why it makes me laugh that people think war is legal, same with war crimes....war in itself is a crime, so therefore any act commited by armies and such, is a crime...not just when they go and assassinate entire familes or villages. this mentaltiy is what i find so humourous, how can war be anything but a crime and illegal...

and 3000 people a day is a staggering number, i wonder how they could pull it off actually. i mean if you think about it it only says 6 millions JEWS, it mentions nothing about the other peoples murdered there, so if you take it this way they would have to kill almost 3000 jews each day, aswell as all the other people. seemingly impossible.

the tale of the jewish people is used to create a collective sense of guilt, from not just in germany but worldwide, that this race was greatly wronged, the guilt make it easy for governments to do what they want in certain situations by bringing up WW2 and the jewish slughter and people immediatly roll over and let them do it...but personally i dont feel guilty. why should we, whom were not even alive at the time, feel guilty for something that happened a few generations ago, and we had no part of....i never have and never will feel guilty for the concentration camps and the people whom died there, i feel sorry and disgusted that it happened, but never guilty. and yet even more digusted that peopel still havent learned their lesson...

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 19 Jul 2006, 10:16

Well... I think the one thing we can say about those nazis must be that they sure as hell weren't lazy about it...

I personally also have my doubts about the 6 million mark. I just reacted to LD's statement that it was hundreds of thousands, while it must surely be over 1-2 million minimum?

I'm sure though that the german's wouldnt have kept record of ALL their killings.

Anyway, WAYYYyyyyy too many people died because of that Nazi nutter. Not just the million(s) of jews, but also think about the russians, the allied soldiers, the german people themselfs obviously, etc etc...

The sad thing is that in today's age with so many people having prejudice and hate against muslims, I could totally se that happening again: a populist madman taking controll and doing alot of damage. Just look at the success Rita Verdonk is having in Holland. Look at 'Vlaams Belang' in Belgium...

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 19 Jul 2006, 10:17

look at bush in america...

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 19 Jul 2006, 11:16

i dont get why only british people are being evacuated from Lebanon, they made the choice to live there (afaik) are they more important than the lebanese kids there and their families? actually im suprised theyare even saving anyone....but still it is not fair that onlybritish people are "saved" the kids that kkive their didnt ask to be in the middle of a war.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 19 Jul 2006, 13:48

Kurgan wrote:What does the last death on each of those lines equal Mark?! You kept a cogent argument going on till the the very end and left us all hanging!

It represents the endless cycle of violence.

the68monkey · Post by **the68monkey** » 19 Jul 2006, 14:28

The Nazis didn't have to actively kill all of the people in the concentration camps. The conditions in many of the camps were so deplorable that many died from starvation or disease. Anne Frank and her sister Margot died at Bergen-Belsen concentration camp from Typhus. Their mother died from starvation at Auschwitz's sister camp for women.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 19 Jul 2006, 15:20

Markgway wrote:It represents the endless cycle of violence.

You really didn't have to point that out to me. If the tone of the question wasn't flippant enough, I thought that the smiley made it obvious.

But since you bring it up, would you be kind enough to add to that equation so it reads ''For All RELIGION There Exist SOME RELIGIOUS NUTBAGS...'.
Thanks ever so much.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 19 Jul 2006, 15:48

68M,

True.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 19 Jul 2006, 17:23

Kurgan wrote:But since you bring it up, would you be kind enough to add to that equation so it reads ''For All RELIGION There Exist SOME RELIGIOUS NUTBAGS...'.
Thanks ever so much.

Nah, cause I think all believers in religion are crazy to some extent... it's just that some are really fuckin' dangerous!

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 19 Jul 2006, 17:28

Ahah! So you've just amended your own theory!

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 19 Jul 2006, 17:37

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 19 Jul 2006, 22:02

By saying:

Markgway wrote:... it's just that some are really fuckin' dangerous!

you've made an adjustment to your original statement, that's what I'm saying.

Anyway, enough of this banality. I know what you meant in the first place, and you know that I'm trying to say that it's not as clear cut as that (albeit in a slightly less dour manner compared to the rest of this thread). Well, at least, I hope you know that is what I meant

Let's leave it at that.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 20 Jul 2006, 20:09

Shen wrote:actually, research indicates that the figures were significantly lower than 6million, after people got ahold of the well kept concentration camps, and the figures added up to nowhere near 6 million, also mass graves found the bodies again, nowhere near 6 million.,..

I don't personally see how the exact figure matters. If it were 6, 4 or even 2 million. We're still talking millions and even thousands is just as bad.

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 20 Jul 2006, 20:22

shen wrote:the fact one person died sucks

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 20 Jul 2006, 20:54

thelostdragon wrote:Well... yeah... you could put it this way. But then we also have the Federal President.

Is the President head of state? i.e - Ireland has both a Prime Minister who runs the country and a President who is Head of State.

thelostdragon wrote:My father was 16 and happened to be there with his father when troops invaded Jerusalem.

Firstly thanks for taking the time to write that up.

Where were these troops from? Were they allied troops?

What was the reasoning behind this? I mean how did they answer "but Israel is already occupied"? Where did the current occupants go? I guess they fled around the surrounding countries.

I don't get why the Jews needed their own country???

What and hisbala (sp?) are against the current government/want their country back?

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 20 Jul 2006, 20:56

What is the reason the Western governments are given for this being acceptable?

Fine if they're bombing military/terrorist targets but how can Bush, Blair etc . . . seem to say it's acceptable to bomb civilian homes???

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 20 Jul 2006, 21:13

bradavon wrote:What is the reason the Western governments are given for this being acceptable?

Fine if they're bombing military/terrorist targets but how can Bush, Blair etc . . . seem to say it's acceptable to bomb civilian homes???

They can get away with it because all the bush/blair voters are so affraid of muslims and terrorists (which for them is all the same), that they hardly care about any civilian casualties it seems.
Plus the USA will ALWAYS stand behind Israel, simply because if you're an american politician that speaks out AGAINST Israel's actions, your political future is GONE, because of the huge jewish influence in American politics and business.

I wish it was any different, and politicians would look at the situation objectively, but they wont.

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 20 Jul 2006, 21:35

Yi-Long wrote:Also, I think Brad was meaning the situation with libanon?

No, he wasn't.

bradavon wrote:I wasn't asking what is happening now but what are the root causes. Whenever I have turned on the news this isn't discussed as it's assumed everyone knows.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 20 Jul 2006, 21:52

Aw Ok

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 20 Jul 2006, 22:03