Israel Seals Off Lebanon amid Bombing Raids

Literally. Unless it Should Go Elsewhere
the68monkey
Royal Tramp
Posts: 1444
Joined: 09 Apr 2005, 03:12
Location: Eastern United States

Post by the68monkey »

bradavon wrote:Where were these troops from? Were they allied troops?
The area was under British control at the time, Brad. Jerusalem and surrounding cities already had large, thriving populations of Jews before WWII, as a result of the Zionist movement that had been going on since the 19th century. (The Zionist movement was started as an attempt for Jews to return to their homeland. Google it if you want more history on it). Britain was making promises to both the Zionists and the Arab nations at the same time, and eventually handed the matter over to the United Nations for settling. The U.N. decided that areas west of the Jordan River should be divided up between Jews and Arabs, and understandably, the Arabs disagreed. The following year, when the British mandate of the region expired, the Jews immediately declared that the State of Israel had been established. A war ensued, but by the following year, all of the Arab countries bording Israel signed a truce that recognized Israel as a state. As to what the actual borders of Israel are/should be, well, it's been an ongoing battle since then, with some extremist Muslim groups, such as Hizballah, having the sole aim of eradicating Israel.

As for why Hizballah would kidnap two Israeli soldiers when they knew the retaliation would be brutal and harsh, nobody can answer with certainty. You'll find a host of different theories as to who is behind what, from the Shi-ite Muslims of Iran to the post-9/11 hysterical fear of the Arab world. Look to whatever source you want to find whatever theory you want. As to why Israel is bombing civilians, well Hizballah is composed of civilians. Reportedly, weapons are being stored in areas near residences, but nobody knows for certain. It is known that the rockets fired from Lebanon that reached Haifa were likely fired from largely-civilian areas close to the border, simply because they wouldn't have that sort of range if they weren't placed near the border. Does this justify Israel's bombing of these civilian areas? I am in no position to answer that, but I think most people would think it morally wrong.

As for why the Jews wanted their own country, or wanted that particular area, it's because of their long history in the region. Jerusalem had once been occupied by the Jewish people. King Saul, King David, King Solomon? The Kingdom of Israel? The Hebrew state? Have you been exposed to any Old Testament Bible history? Granted, this is ancient history, as in B.C. history, but Jewish presence and rule continued in the region even into Roman times. Jerusalem became a focus of three major world religions, Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. Muslim Arab armies finally took control of Jerusalem in the 7th century. Prosperity and harmony followed, with Jews and Arabs living together under Muslim rule, peacefully co-existing for thousands of years until the beginning of the Ottomon Empire's rule (in the 16th or 17th century? I think?). The Zionist movement began during the late years of the empire, before it was defeated by the British (with Arab help), who gained control of Palestine in the early 20th century. So, now we've come back to where we started this post . . .

If you want more info, look it up at Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel ), take a history class, or do some of your own internet research at reliable sites.



You know, I really didn't want to get involved in this thread, or any political threads at a forum where I come for silly diversions and film-related chats and games. But now it's done, and frankly, I'm not having much fun here. I think I need a break from BnB for awhile.

Have fun with the DVD Mystery game and musings on Jackie's latest antics. I'm sure I'll be back eventually, but for now, it's summer and I'm going to spend more time outdoors and away from the computer.

Take care, folks!
My favorite Hong Kong screen villain? www.yuenwah.com
User avatar
Markgway
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 20195
Joined: 18 Feb 2005, 02:04

Post by Markgway »

And I never did find out if she completed that Freddy Krueger game............ 8)
Image
User avatar
thelostdragon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 7059
Joined: 29 Oct 2004, 22:36
Location: Basin City

Post by thelostdragon »

Huh? Why did this discussion make you leave? You have contributed a good and informative post to this thread. Went into more detail than I wanted to. Why do you feel bad about that?
Image
User avatar
grim_tales
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 22166
Joined: 25 Oct 2004, 17:34
Location: St. Albans, UK

Post by grim_tales »

LD's right, don't leave the forum Bobbi :( The more the merrier and all that. :)
the68monkey
Royal Tramp
Posts: 1444
Joined: 09 Apr 2005, 03:12
Location: Eastern United States

Post by the68monkey »

Hey guys, I'm getting your PM's, and thanks. I'm flattered. :D

I'm not marching off in disgust or anything like that, as I thought I'd made clear. I'm just taking a little break to enjoy summer and the outdoors a bit more. I'll be around some, just not as much.

You can't get rid of me THAT easily, you know. Yi-Long's been trying for years! :lol:
My favorite Hong Kong screen villain? www.yuenwah.com
Yi-Long
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 8616
Joined: 26 Oct 2004, 12:46
Location: Alkmaar, Holland

Post by Yi-Long »

the68monkey wrote:
You can't get rid of me THAT easily, you know. Yi-Long's been trying for years! :lol:
...and I'll be happy to continue trying for many more years to come ;)

BTW: I didnt think you'd leave. As you said, you're just off to enjoy some more of the summer and spare time. Not that you'll succeed ofcourse. Let's face it: you're addicted to BNB. What would you do without us?
Watch Yuen Biao movies all day? Pfff I doubt it ;)
Image
I was there, the big BNB blackout of november, 2008. We lost many that day...
bradavon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 24430
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 19:30

Post by bradavon »

the68monkey wrote:As for why the Jews wanted their own country, or wanted that particular area, it's because of their long history in the region!
Thanks for taking the time to write that insightful post.

Just one thing I was asking why the Jews felt they needed their own country suddenly after WW2 not why in history they thought they needed it. It's not an important question.

As for my lack of understanding, as you know history is so incredibly complicated and in-depth no one can possibly know it all. I do reckon I know more about the British Empire then the average Joe for example, having watching a fair few documentaries on the subject.

I wasn't taught either testament at school, it's not something schools here do. As you may know "overall" religion is of much lower importance to Brits (and I think Europeans in general) than it is to Americans. I'm generalising of course but overall the stats are much lower.

Is Wikipedia accurate? It really depends who you ask. I use it but know to not treat everything as gospel.
User avatar
grim_tales
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 22166
Joined: 25 Oct 2004, 17:34
Location: St. Albans, UK

Post by grim_tales »

Everything is still in a mess. Despite most over here valling for an "immediate" ceasefire between Israel/Lebanon Blair/Bush are not willing to call for one, they keep holding talks for a ceasefire of sorts but - for both Israel/Lebanon to stop (and of course they both must cease fighting), certain conditions/stability have to be there to make it happen (something like that).

Hezbollah started all this by kidnapping the soldiers, but the action against Lebanon by Israel is disproportinate and OTT IMO :(
User avatar
Shen
Royal Tramp
Posts: 1481
Joined: 10 Feb 2006, 11:28
Location: Leeds, UK

Post by Shen »

the only thing i dont get with this thing is why the fuck are we supporting Israel...ok Hezbollah started it (this time) apparently but peopel are like "oh well Israel needs our support", wtf, Israel are the ones blowing the shit out of kids, while Hezbollah are hardly damaging at all, yeah they are bombing back but not to any amount of the scale Israel is. and our fucked up leaders are still saying Israel needs protection, jeez how fucked up is that... Bush and Bliar are already speaking of introducing NATO into Israel and lebanon, to aid the causes and stuff, yeah so thats why there was no ceasefire, here comes another US/UK war when there shouldnt be.

the is no sane reason why Bush and Blair should not support the immeadiate ceasefire, ok so it wouldnt bring absolute peace but enough time probably to restore some kind of peace to the countries. but yeah were heading for another war, and i hope people dont let our so called leaders walk all over us and take us to a war we dont wanna be in.
User avatar
thelostdragon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 7059
Joined: 29 Oct 2004, 22:36
Location: Basin City

Post by thelostdragon »

Bush and Blair are both politicians. They know exactly what they do when saying publicly that Israel has the right to defend itself and that they should keep on striking in order to get Hizbollah out. They bring more and more people in the region against them and Israel. And that's what Bush intends to do.
Image
User avatar
thelostdragon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 7059
Joined: 29 Oct 2004, 22:36
Location: Basin City

Post by thelostdragon »

Qana attack stirs worldwide outcry - <- Click for the CNN news...


Further news about this today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5228224.stm
More than 54 civilians, at least 34 of them children, have been killed in a town in south Lebanon in the deadliest Israeli strike of the conflict so far.

Displaced families had been sheltering in the basement of a house in Qana, which was crushed after a direct hit.

Lebanon's prime minister denounced "Israeli war criminals" and cancelled talks with the US secretary of state.

Israel said it regretted the incident - but added that civilians had been warned to flee the village.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/ ... index.html
Israel said it mistakenly destroyed a four-story building near a Hezbollah rocket-launching site in Qana, Lebanon, on Sunday where the Red Cross and Lebanese internal security sources at the scene said 54 people died, including 19 children.
Image
User avatar
thelostdragon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 7059
Joined: 29 Oct 2004, 22:36
Location: Basin City

Post by thelostdragon »

Christians and Shiites demonstrate together against Israel. Christians sway Hizbollah flags:

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0 ... 51,00.html

Image
Image
Yi-Long
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 8616
Joined: 26 Oct 2004, 12:46
Location: Alkmaar, Holland

Post by Yi-Long »

There's talk now that prior to the 'kidnapping' of the 2 Israeli soldiers, the USA and Israel already had plans and had agreed on airstikes against hezbollah, according to various sources...

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 01,00.html

also, check: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/israeli_solders.html
Image
I was there, the big BNB blackout of november, 2008. We lost many that day...
User avatar
thelostdragon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 7059
Joined: 29 Oct 2004, 22:36
Location: Basin City

Post by thelostdragon »

Yi, of course. They waited for a good opportunity to make these raids justifiable internationally (which are still not). Even if Hizbollah gave them back their soldiers (of which the one with the gunshot wound in his stomach sure as hell is dead), Israel wouldn't stop now.
Image
EvaUnit02
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 9150
Joined: 08 Feb 2005, 14:39
Location: Wellywood, Kiwiland

Post by EvaUnit02 »

SHALOM FELLOW SONS OF DAVID!!!11!!!1 Yes, an insurgent group is launching rockets upon us from within this particular country's borders, thus that entire country must pay for that group's acts. Let's commit genocide, cuz what better way to vent our neverending anger over the Holocaust.
Image
Yi-Long
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 8616
Joined: 26 Oct 2004, 12:46
Location: Alkmaar, Holland

Post by Yi-Long »

awesome video of George Gallowa against a Sky News reporter about Libanon: http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/video ... 06,00.html#
Image
I was there, the big BNB blackout of november, 2008. We lost many that day...
User avatar
thelostdragon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 7059
Joined: 29 Oct 2004, 22:36
Location: Basin City

Post by thelostdragon »

MAAAAAN!!! Love this guy! He said it all! Thanks, Yi! Who is this guy, anyway? He is fuckin' awesome!
Image
Yi-Long
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 8616
Joined: 26 Oct 2004, 12:46
Location: Alkmaar, Holland

Post by Yi-Long »

Great, isnt he? Finally a politician that tries to sets people straight, and if they cant manage to understand it, he'll put it in a clear way :D

He's George Gallaway. I hadnt seen him before but heard about him, like him saying Bush is the greatest war-criminal and that an assasination on Blair would be justifiable.

I hate how 'our' media constantly continues to neglect certain aspects of the conflict, like how Israel was still on Lebanese ground ever since 2000... and how the the 'kidnapped' soldiers were not taken from Israel, but were in Lebanon when they were taken hostage...
Image
I was there, the big BNB blackout of november, 2008. We lost many that day...
Kurgan
Royal Tramp
Posts: 1740
Joined: 10 Nov 2004, 11:29
Location: Dewsbury, UK

Post by Kurgan »

Galloway does have strong opinions, some of which I agree with. It's just a shame that he seemed to feel the urge to go on Celebrity Big Brother. Yes, it's done for charity, but it's also self-promotion. Didn't watch the programme, but the fact that it's Big Brother is enough..., plus he did it soon after he'd been elected the MP for his constituency.

He was funny though when he was brought up in front of some US court or some such. He absolutely stuck it to them - every point they made was countered and shoved back in their faces :)
Last edited by Kurgan on 15 Aug 2006, 23:58, edited 1 time in total.
Image
User avatar
thelostdragon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 7059
Joined: 29 Oct 2004, 22:36
Location: Basin City

Post by thelostdragon »

Yi-Long wrote:...and how the the 'kidnapped' soldiers were not taken from Israel, but were in Lebanon when they were taken hostage...
YOUR MEMORY REACHES ONLY 4 WEEKS BACK!!!!!! :D
Image
Yi-Long
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 8616
Joined: 26 Oct 2004, 12:46
Location: Alkmaar, Holland

Post by Yi-Long »

Kurgan wrote:Galloway does have strong opinions, some of which I agree with. It's just a shame that he seemed to feel the urge to go on Celebrity Big Brother. Yes, it's done for charity, but it's also self-promotion. Didn't watch the programme, but the fact that it's Big Brother is enough..., plus he did it soon after he'd been elected the MP for his constituency.

He was funny though when he was brought up in front of some US court or some such. He absolutely stuck it to them - every point they made was countered and shoved back in their faces :)
You're right that one should lose respect for someone that is in Big Brother. I didnt know that about the guy but yeah, it does put things ina whole other perspective ;)

Nah, I agree with you, BB sucks. But that's also because of how the people BEHAVE and what persons they get to stay in the house, that it sucks. Usually, they're not the brightest stars in the sky. But I guess ome could walk away from that show with dignity.

How was Jack Dee btw? Didnt he do the Celebrity BB? I saw a few little clips of him, everytime getting ready to leave that shithole, all packed and suited up, and then he got to hear that he wasnt voted out. :D
Image
I was there, the big BNB blackout of november, 2008. We lost many that day...
Kurgan
Royal Tramp
Posts: 1740
Joined: 10 Nov 2004, 11:29
Location: Dewsbury, UK

Post by Kurgan »

No idea. Like I said, I didn't actually watch the thing; I just heard that he was on the show. Although, if I remember rightly, he won and so was able to choose the charity which benefitted from the show.
Image
User avatar
Markgway
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 20195
Joined: 18 Feb 2005, 02:04

Post by Markgway »

Galloway said he went on BB to raise his party's profile among younger viewers, though there's no doubt he's an incredible exhibitionist who loves seeing his face plastered across the media.

He's frankly the best politician in debate I've ever seen, even though I don't always agree with what he says. He's outspoken and outrageous, but never ever dull.
Image
slasher13
Royal Tramp
Posts: 1799
Joined: 03 Dec 2004, 09:15

Post by slasher13 »

Another good video, Asghar Bukhari, from the Muslim Public Affairs Committee, and Times columnist Oliver Kamm, have debated the issue - Gloves OFF!!
http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/video ... 06,00.html
EvaUnit02
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 9150
Joined: 08 Feb 2005, 14:39
Location: Wellywood, Kiwiland

Post by EvaUnit02 »

No one seems to be bothered with mentioning the recent kidnapping of the Fox News team in Palestine. It's a big deal over here, prolly cuz the cameraman is a kiwi.