The Pope - Islam speech

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 16 Sep 2006, 11:46

Many of us can't have failed to catch this - the Pope made a speech in Germany in which he quote a 14th century Christian emperor saying Islam/Mohammed had done "evil and inhuman" things.
IMO:
1) Why single out Islam? There has been evil commited in the name of "religion" everywhere, and that includes Christianity. The Head of John the Baptist on plate, the Cruxifiction, burning women as witches.
2) AFAIK his speech was actually about tolerance, understanding and bringing people closer together or something, just because he made that quote (he said .."He said.. and I quote" before starting it, so it was obviously a quote) doesn't mean he agrees with it. IMO he was saying "WE don't think like that"
3) Bad choice of words? Probably, I don't know, why should he apologise for something written in the Middle Ages?

If The Pope isn't allowed free speech, who is?

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 16 Sep 2006, 12:04

actually the pope is infaliable, technically anything he says or does is right, so apologizing isnt in his vocabulary (how that fairs now i dunno)...but indeed why single out islam...christianity is technically the worst offending religion for commiting "evil and inhuman" things...but indeed all religions have done the same things...

he was wrong, why choose to quote a middle age saying, when he knew full well what it meant and most probably its implications. that is wrong, and he should probably apologize for it. but i doubt he will. has he already? lol

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 16 Sep 2006, 12:08

Yeah why quote the middle age saying, all we heard was the quote and some slight background to what the speech was about, he should come out and say what he meant I think. But don't you think people get too touchy about religion?

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 16 Sep 2006, 12:33

The Pope and his cult of followers and evil doers have done what they like for a long time now and will continue to, so really who cares? not me.

They do what they want to, whenever they want and never get anything done to them. Its a pathetic way to run the world, as hell The Pope runs many countries like clockwork as some people are stupid enuff to follow him and die for doing so every single day around the world.

I just think the whole thing is funny really, as only stupid people will care much about what he says.

Islam/Mohammed followers definatly should not care as hell it doesnt hurt them at all, so shouldnt be getting so upset over some ignorant mans comment. Really he can say what he wants mind you, its up to him and people should leave it at that.

If they are offended then they really need to get over it and care about something far more important of which I am sure many of us could think of a few things.

Religions have never got along well and insults dont hurt anyone, bullets do. And I am sure some mental looney will now want to kill the Pope.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 16 Sep 2006, 12:39

Personally I think the fact that effigys of the Pope can be burned and there is talk of severing ties with the Vatican, when the people choose to ignore the apparent context the quote was made in - OK why single out Islam BUT it doesnt mean he agrees with the quote - I doubt he did - shows how insecure some people are.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 16 Sep 2006, 12:50

I just take it all with a pich of salt myself, all religions do bad a lot. But more importantly followers do bad in the name of religion and people still tink its ok. Thats sad. If someone was to kill the Pope right now I am sure a lot of people would be over the moon and commend the killers actions, that shows you haw pathetic religions are.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 16 Sep 2006, 13:15

romerojpg wrote:I just think the whole thing is funny really, as only stupid people will care much about what he says. If they are offended then they really need to get over it and care about something far more important of which I am sure many of us could think of a few things.

Pretty much agree with that.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 16 Sep 2006, 14:04

Just saw on the news thousands of Muslims acting like loonies

and they will get away with it. Pathetic.

He just appoologuied apprently "The Holy Father is Very Sorry", a bit pointless really as the mentalists now have more ammo for their riots they love to do regulary

They need to go out and find lives instead of kicking off every 15 minutes, obviously they have no lives and jobs. I am sure god loves them doing this in his name all the time, sure they will be going to a better place when they die also.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 16 Sep 2006, 14:29

It's easy to criticize when you're not the one who's being insulted.

I understand why they're angry...

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 16 Sep 2006, 14:39

I don't.

But he didn't insult anyone with HIS views Tom, he made that quote to show people SHOULDN'T be intolerant towards each other (I thought?). The response just shows how archaic and touchy some people are!

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 16 Sep 2006, 14:55

Maybe he should have spoken louder when he said "I quote".

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 16 Sep 2006, 15:17

Possibly.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 16 Sep 2006, 16:29

tom2681 wrote:It's easy to criticize when you're not the one who's being insulted.
I understand why they're angry...

You inderstand do you, good for you. Go help them kill the Pooe then

over a few pathetic words.

So should the Muslims burning images of the Pope and rioting like mental dicks get away scott free as well then? as they will, they Always do. They are far more gulity than the Pope thats for sure.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 16 Sep 2006, 16:49

I heard on the news today the Pope apologised but people are still saying "Translate your speech into Arabic" or something, so they can understand what he meant.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 16 Sep 2006, 19:29

I have no time for Catholicism or The Pope, but let's be honest, it takes virtually nothing to offend Muslims. I just wonder what next week's protest will be about? Porky Pig? But then if religion is the most important thing in your life (and death) this will undoubtedly happen. I just get fed up hearing about it. I'd happily put all religious fanatics together on an island and let them float away forever...

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 16 Sep 2006, 20:30

I'd do it with people who use religion as a cover for evil, yes.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 16 Sep 2006, 20:37

Good point Mark BTW, some (not all) Muslims seem very easily offended

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 16 Sep 2006, 21:32

Yeah once again, the extremists are being turds of the highest order. Far be it for me to question their dumb beliefs and backward culture, but I really wish they would stop exploiting these situations to fuel further hatred.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 17 Sep 2006, 00:35

Heres something for any Muslims out there (maybe even other religions?)

How do you feel about the element of Muslims out there who go maybe too far, sometimes way to far and get on the news and show some Muslims to be rather nasty, angry men sometimes going way over the line (I rarley ever have seen woman do anything, if at all?).

I cannot even speak about it as I am not religious at all, and no way I can be banded into a group that I can think of.

It just seems to me the news always! picks the bad things to show, the footage shown on the news about this whole pope incident was pretty appauling bahavior from any adult in the world. The hatred in these guys faces is beyond words at times and once it starts they all just get revved up and go rather mental.

I cannot think of anything, apart from my family that I would ever get so angry about. I am sure some people love their religion, but it cannot come before your family can it?

slasher13 · Post by **slasher13** » 17 Sep 2006, 12:59

romerojpg wrote:Heres something for any Muslims out there (maybe even other religions?)

How do you feel about the element of Muslims out there who go maybe too far, sometimes way to far and get on the news and show some Muslims to be rather nasty, angry men sometimes going way over the line (I rarley ever have seen woman do anything, if at all?).

Hey that me

Okay let have a serious discussion on this, Reading the news, as my TV is broken down, looking from different news souce, let try to discuss each points

Just saw on the news thousands of Muslims acting like loonies Rolling Eyes and they will get away with it. Pathetic.

So to protest in any country equal loonies then...
Of course when looking in the media, if we show peaceful protest, that it not news, however showing protest like the following:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/in_pictures/5349604.stm
Yep they are sure to make people talk alot, shows it in a bad light.

So should the Muslims burning images of the Pope and rioting like mental dicks get away scott free as well then? as they will, they Always do. They are far more gulity than the Pope thats for sure.

Okay I see 'images' of a burning effigy, again from the link i passed above from BBC news, but really it is hard to make out its the pope. Also no where in the image mentioned about the Pope, the banners for me are hard to make out. So I conclude from this, that this picture could be of anything, and gasp.... it attached to this story to stir up feelings

but let's be honest, it takes virtually nothing to offend Muslims. I just wonder what next week's protest will be about? Porky Pig? But then if religion is the most important thing in your life (and death) this will undoubtedly happen. I just get fed up hearing about it. I'd happily put all religious fanatics together on an island and let them float away forever...

To say 'Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached', I think is a bit too much. Agreed with Grim to say, why bring that up. Jews faith and Christian faith have equally used the swords, the latter more so.

Yeah once again, the extremists are being turds of the highest order. Far be it for me to question their dumb beliefs and backward culture, but I really wish they would stop exploiting these situations to fuel further hatred.

Yep agreed, to be honest, it would be to futhur their own agenda rather than to do with religion. However from what the news say:

"A statement on a web site purportedly issued by the Iraqi insurgent group, the Mujahideen Army, threatened an attack on the Vatican. The statement could not be independently authenticated."

But yes I do take your point

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 17 Sep 2006, 13:53

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 17 Sep 2006, 15:13

slasher13 wrote:So to protest in any country equal loonies then...

Depends on what one is protesting about and why? Simple fact is Muslims protest so much these days that it's hard to know what is genuine and what isn't? It seems that there is always SOMETHING to upset the flag burners. Sensible Muslims should distance themselves from these fanatics not look for reasons to defend them.

Of course when looking in the media, if we show peaceful protest, that it not news

True enough. But haven't these people got anything better to do? The world is in chaos. Who gives a fuck what one religion thinks about another? They're never going to empathise with each other so why the shock and outrage? I'm sure everyday in the Middle East some Muslims decry Christianity and Judaism and nothing is said. I've seen quotes from the Quoran to this effect. Yet I don't see anyone protesting at Islam?

Okay I see 'images' of a burning effigy, again from the link i passed above from BBC news, but really it is hard to make out its the pope. Also no where in the image mentioned about the Pope, the banners for me are hard to make out. So I conclude from this, that this picture could be of anything, and gasp.... it attached to this story to stir up feelings

That's weak paranoia.

To say 'Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached', I think is a bit too much.

We'll I'm not going to argue for or against that quote as I'm too ignorant of both religions. But doesn't the Pope have the right to freedom of speech? If you substituted the name "Muhammad" for "Jesus" and the text was quoted by an Islamic leader would there be the same furore? Certainly not. Unfortunately in the last few years Islam has taken on a certain self-righteous quality along the lines of 'do as I say not as I do'.

slasher13 · Post by **slasher13** » 17 Sep 2006, 15:41

Hey Mark, Wondered where you where

Okay lets discuss.....

Markgway wrote: Depends on what one is protesting about and why? Simple fact is Muslims protest so much these days that it's hard to know what is genuine and what isn't? It seems that there is always SOMETHING to upset the flag burners. Sensible Muslims should distance themselves from these fanatics not look for reasons to defend them.

Again you've come up to this concluson by what the media shows you, each week/day/second Muslim are protesting against something that maybe totally alien to you or anyone else. The last time I've heard of muslim protesting was against Israel attacking Lebonon, and even Christian protested alongside. Of course this wasn't mentioned

True enough. But haven't these people got anything better to do? The world is in chaos. Who gives a fuck what one religion thinks about another? They're never going to empathise with each other so why the shock and outrage? I'm sure everyday in the Middle East some Muslims decry Christianity and Judaism and nothing is said. I've seen quotes from the Quoran to this effect. Yet I don't see anyone protesting at Islam?

To be honest, Islam says to respect all religion, it actually written within the Qu'ran. What you see is what the person/people was brought up in a certain environment. By the way, what quotes from the Qu'ran were mentioned that was said about Christians or Jews?

That's weak paranoia.

, You never answered the question though? My point is valid, Show me the full picture or video of this?, and I will decry against it, as again mentioned above, Islam says to respect all religion.

We'll I'm not going to argue for or against that quote as I'm too ignorant of both religions. But doesn't the Pope have the right to freedom of speech? If you substituted the name "Muhammad" for "Jesus" and the text was quoted by an Islamic leader would there be the same furore? Certainly not. Unfortunately in the last few years Islam has taken on a certain self-righteous quality along the lines of 'do as I say not as I do'.

Ahh nope, Wouldn't have said that, Jesus (PBUH) is also one of our Prophets as well, and mentioned in the Qu'ran, we believe he will come to Earth again. To say anything against Jesus (PBUH) would be the same as saying again Muhammad (PBUH)

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 17 Sep 2006, 15:56

I insult Jesus all the time to be honest, I say "Jesus Christ" a lot. I have been told I offended a friend who was religious and had to calm her down, but I was thinking get a flipping life! I can offend him all I like (even if he aint real), its not as if he is ever going to do anything about it and doesnt need you to stick up for him.

Thats why I hate religion in many ways, if we offenders are offending a god etc.. let the God come down a strike me down, and not some moron who thinks they speak for god or have to defend god. If god wants to he could come and tell me off at any time. Just shows you he doesnt exist at all really.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 17 Sep 2006, 16:23

slasher13 wrote:Again you've come up to this concluson by what the media shows you, each week/day/second Muslim are protesting against something that maybe totally alien to you or anyone else.

Obviously we only hear about the major ones. Maybe you know about smaller issues/protests that I don't?

The last time I've heard of muslim protesting was against Israel attacking Lebonon, and even Christian protested alongside. Of course this wasn't mentioned

That was quite recent, but yes, it wasn't just Muslims. I'm not saying that ONLY Muslims protest, just that they do it a lot more than anyone else, and are often quite hypocritical in doing so. When Muslims protest over cartoons "we must listen and respect or else..." when Christians protest over Jerry Springer's blasphemy we laugh and ignore them for the cranks they are.

To be honest, Islam says to respect all religion, it actually written within the Qu'ran.

I have just today read quotes that refute that claim.

"Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate."

"Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends."

"(fight against those who are not of the true faith) until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued"

Now either what you say is incorrect or these quotes DO NOT come direct from the Quoran... which?

Ahh nope, Wouldn't have said that, Jesus (PBUH) is also one of our Prophets as well, and mentioned in the Qu'ran, we believe he will come to Earth again. To say anything against Jesus (PBUH) would be the same as saying again Muhammad (PBUH)

Muslims don't believe Jesus is God's son. Now wouldn't saying that be offensive to Christians as it's the backbone of their religion? Are you saying that Muslims shouldn't say that lest Christians are offended and protest? Burn down Mosques, perhaps?