Is Britain a racist country?

[grim_tales]

Is the Government/media going too far with its' stance on immigration?

Fair point we have to stop illegal immigrants/criminals coming into the country, but these are different from asylum seekers, who are genuine refugees. What is wrong with them wanting to have a better life, live and work here?
Michael Howard should be ashamed of himself for his policies His parents were immigrants. In WWII, the Nazis murdered thousands of gypsies, disabled people and millions of Jews.
How ironic that Howard (a Jew) says he will deport the gypsies/travellers

Has islamaphobia (I believe that is a word now ) increased after 9/11? What I just said about genuine refugees doesnt excuse the actions of the evil c**ts responsible for 9/11, Bali or the bombings in Madrid. :twisted: These weren't immigrants but extremists, so are we getting too scared of a threat that isn't there?

BTW I heard that the 2nd(?) person (not Hutton, the other one) who led the inquiry over Iraq initially expressed doubts about whether it was legal but "changed his mind at the last minute" (no really). However all these calls (still) from protesters to bring the troops home are nonsense IMO. If we did that so soon after the elections there'd probably be a civil war. To leave now would be a disaster for the country. Though it is a good thing for the people Saddam is gone.

Everyone, your thoughts?

[Mordib]

wow you've kind of covered a lot of subjects there!!

starting off with the thread title i'd say 'it can be'. Whilst there will always be a minority who truly spend their entire lives being racist the majority in Britain are essentially just sheep. If the Sun decides to write alarmist stories about immigrants then the majority take the idea and for a while at least tend to become quite racist, however the sun could just as easily print a positive story on the subject and people will act accordingly.

immigration and the government - Labour has a system that doesn't work great, the media build up the hype about immigration it becomes a key election issue. tories realise they have to come up with a policy that contrasts with the governments pretty quick... so they nick australias system. Labour retaliate by coming up with their own version and so forth. I seriously doubt it has every really crossed either sides mind that their aim is to do anything more than win votes.

Islamaphobia... it exists when the media want it to exist. Our fear is what is stopping further attacks by extremists from happening because widespread fear is the primary goal of such attacks, if its already present and thriving then there is no need for the terrorists to expend more resources on it.

The whole 'legality' of the war is indeed once again being brought into question, which is a bit daft really because everyone knows full well we went to war on flimsy excuses yet they treat each of these 'new' revelations as a whole new horror. If people want to stop us going to war in such a way in future then they need to force the government to pass some law preventing us from going to war unless us or our allies are being directly attacked by another military force (not including terrorists because you cant go to war in the conventional sense against individuals). I personally think the war was a waste of time but i really do believe Blair honestly thought he was doing the right thing, and for that I'm almost tempted to actually vote for the first time, for blair. It was a pretty damn big mistake, but at least he stuck by his convictions and went through with it, which is a hell of a lot more than you can say about most politicians and priministers we've had...

m.

[grim_tales]

I agree with you, in a way I admire Tony Blair because seemed to really believe in what he was doing and what he thought was right (even though as you say, the excuses were flimsy, and Bush was curiously doing the same...). I also don't think he knowingly lied or misled people. A lie is when you deliberately say something you know at that time to be untrue, not doing something you really belive in which is later proved to be wrong.

As Blair said "Of course we would rather be popular than inpopular. But it is better to unpopular than wrong"

[Markgway]

Is Britain a racist country?

No more than anyplace else...

Is the Government/media going too far with its' stance on immigration?

No, not far enough.

Fair point we have to stop illegal immigrants/criminals coming into the country, but these are different from asylum seekers, who are genuine refugees. What is wrong with them wanting to have a better life, live and work here?

Because it costs money... you can't transpose hundreds of thousands of people from one part of the world to another and be surprised when "issues" arise. I'm all for Britain taking in their fair share, but there has to be a limit. Anyone who disagees can give up their house and job to prove me wrong.

Michael Howard should be ashamed of himself for his policies His parents were immigrants. In WWII, the Nazis murdered thousands of gypsies, disabled people and millions of Jews.
How ironic that Howard (a Jew) says he will deport the gypsies/travellers

I think Howard has caught on to a sticky wicket with the whole Gypsies row, but I see where he's coming from in other areas. Just because you're a refugee (or decended from one) doesn't mean you have to play open house to every refugee you come across. You would be surprised but most immigrants don't want other immigrants turning up on their doorsteps. That's partly why you have different factions fighting each other. Common sense would solve this, but PC ensures that can never happen.

Has islamaphobia (I believe that is a word now ) increased after 9/11?

Doubtful. I saw a doc on Ch.4 written and presented by a Muslim guy on this very subject. His theory (and one I largely agree with) is that this false term has been created by the media and subsequently manipulated by those with an agenda to push. Government facts and figures are taken out of context to create a hysterical fear factor among Muslims who are actually in no greater danger now that they were in 2000.

These weren't immigrants but extremists, so are we getting too scared of a threat that isn't there?

The threat IS there. But only the government knows the extent. Considering London is Islam extremist central I wouldn't be complacent.

BTW I heard that the 2nd(?) person (not Hutton, the other one) who led the inquiry over Iraq initially expressed doubts about whether it was legal but "changed his mind at the last minute" (no really).

Yeah, funny that?

However all these calls (still) from protesters to bring the troops home are nonsense IMO. If we did that so soon after the elections there'd probably be a civil war. To leave now would be a disaster for the country. Though it is a good thing for the people Saddam is gone.

Yes on all counts. But that doesn't change the fact that Britain had no rights to invade a foreign country against U.N policy. The most important thing now is to make Iraq safe (a helluva task ahead) and protect our remaining soldiers out there (the vast majority of whom are doing a brave and fantastic job).

[bradavon]

Every country is racist or has racist people in it. Why? Because human beings are naturally wary of difference, minorities and people who aren't the same as them. I've never been to Africa but I've no doubt the black people living there are as racist as the white people living her, probably more so.

Lets get one thing straight gypsies and travellers aren't immigrants. They maybe a nuisance to some but are British as you and I (I think).

[grim_tales]

I didnt know that Brad, thanks I once saw a programme on TV some years ago called "Black on Black" in which it showed African people being racist towards West Indian (I think?) people. Also in the build up Muhammad Ali's famous 1975 fight with (I think?) George Forman, where Ali said extremely rude, if not racist, things to him to probably both dispirit Foreman and to psyche himself up for the fight - in other words he was accusing Foreman of being a white man's lackey.

[bradavon]

What are you thanking me for?

[grim_tales]

Pointing out that travellers aren't immigrants. I didnt know that

[bradavon]

Ah well saying they are is a generalisation. I suspect many travellers have lived in Britain all their lives.

[Markgway]

Saw a doc which revealled that many young Asian males in the UK are racist towards blacks.

[Mordib]

the most racist person I know is a bloke who works in in our finance team at work, he asian, md thirties and quite literally hates all asians of the muslim faith (including his own family). Some of the crap he comes out with would get me or any none asian suspended or fired without a second look, but it seems if you are racist against what is considered your own cultural background it doesnt count...

As for travellers, i think its a total myth now that they from another country, maybe a few generations ago, the whole 'gypsy' concept dates back to travellars in the 1800s as far as i know

[ICE-angel]

...

[EvaUnit02]

Do Britons find being called "poms" or "pommies" offensive? THe use of this colloquialism down here in Australasia is very common.

I used to know a direct Scottish-descended dude (his lastname was Macleod, yes like the Highlander - in fact he would write stories about Connor Macleod and immortals during Creative Writing lessons) in primary school who would get pissed off when I would call him a pom. He'd claim that it meant he had "murdered all his ancestors". I have never encountered this since - hell, I'm got Scottish ancestry on my mother's side and have never anything like this since that one bloke.

[Markgway]

Do Britons find being called "poms" or "pommies" offensive? THe use of this colloquialism down here in Australasia is very common.

Don't know what it means... don't really care.

I'm Scots by the way...

[grim_tales]

I thought Pom was just a word for an English person?
People in South Africa use that word too (I think)?
I don't think I'd find the word offensive, that is, if the person using it didnt mean any offence

[bradavon]

Do Britons find being called "poms" or "pommies" offensive? THe use of this colloquialism down here in Australasia is very common.

I know. I got used to it after a few days. It doesn't bother me no as it's usually meant as a bit of fun. Much like we could call you guys a bunch of sheep shaggers.

I'm actually all for FUN bantering between nations. It really helps moral IMO, if no one takes it to seriously.

"murdered all his ancestors"

That's a load of crap. People take it to far sometimes.

Don't know what it means... don't really care.

It means

"Prisoner of Mother England"

I'm Scots by the way...

You're British and also a Pomme.

Brad checks his fire proof jacket is working . Seriously I'm guessing your passport says you're British?

You're as British as I am but I know what you mean I'd say I'm English before I'm British, technically I'm more Irish but try and explain that to someone. There is no English equivalent that people recognise for Irish American. Irish English sounds very dumb.

Before you say you can't be a pomme as you're not English the word literally means what I said before but in reality means (or more to the point "meant") British citizens in Australasia. There were just as much Scotts helping out the old British Empire as there were English (not meant literally as the populations aren't the same).

But inevitably when there are much more English than Scots the word is going to sway to the English side just like when most people say British they actually mean English. Which of course Britain is as much Wales and Scotland also! I know this but most people who don't live in Britain don't.

The irony is a good portion/to most White Australians descend from Prisoners from England so if you think about it they are more POMES than we are.

People in South Africa use that word too (I think)?

They do.

[Markgway]

Yeah, well they better not call me a "Pom". I'm a prisoner of no one. Guess I've lost my humour about this. But it's not an acceptable abbreviation like "Scot" or "Brit" but rather a slur. We shouldn't encourage it.

[grim_tales]

Is Yank (for American) an acceptable one? We've done this before. I think the term "Yankees" is a corruption of "Jan Kees" or "John Cheese" (?) - the name for the Dutch settlers.
Like you say I'd in no way be offended if someone called me a Brit, that abbreviation is fine.

[Yi-Long]

I'd say yankees is acceptable, but hey, that's cause I use the term all the time to describe the american bush-voting hillbillies...

It's not racist I think. I dont judge american on their colour or religion. Hell, I have no problem with the average american person. It's just the US politics me and the rest of the world have a problem with.

[Markgway]

I think the term "Yankees" is a corruption of "Jan Kees" or "John Cheese" (?) - the name for the Dutch settlers.

I never knew that. Interesting if it's true. I suppose it is offensive if your think about it. No idea how the Americans feel, but I think it's one they used themselves during the Civil War. Not quite the same as one country insulting another.

[bradavon]

They did indeed - "but I think it's one they used themselves during the Civil War". Originally it was meant for only one side.

Guess I've lost my humour about this.

Indeed. I suggest you don't visit Australasia then.

Besides It's not meant to be taken seriously now a days.

[brassmonkey001]

If they come here to contribute then OK. If they come here on the take then we should get rid.

[grim_tales]

Anyone hear about the French/Dutch voting "No" on the EU Constitution?
Also there have been 9 other countries (so far) that have said "Yes" to it - the media doesnt seem to have reported this though

Germany
Greece
Hungary
Italy
Latvia
Lithuania
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain

All Ratified it by varying degrees.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3954327.stm

Interesting reading the UK/Irelands parts...

[bradavon]

All Ratified it by varying degrees.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3954327.stm

If you look most/all of the countries voting yes have not had a referendum so it's not what the people are saying.

Only Spain has held a referendum and the YES vote won. I wonder why the Spanish (by a 77% win) are more for it than say France? Now we're on the subject I notice no newspaper even bothered to mention Spain had a referendum (back in February).

Also there have been 9 other countries (so far) that have said "Yes" to it - the media doesnt seem to have reported this though

The Times did.

The thing is most people are voting on what they think the Constitution says instead of what it actually says. For example many have voted NO to try and keep Turkey out but the Constitution isn't remotely connected to the Turkish issue!

If Britain gets a change to vote I'll be trying my hardest to track down the constitution or the gist of it and have a good read. I can't vote unless I know exactly what I'm voting for. Not that the outcome isn't obvious we live in such a stubborn society (IMO) on the whole a YES vote is nigh on impossible. Why is Britain one of only two countries out of the original 15 (before May 2004) who doesn't have the EU? 13 other countries do.

Back to Turkey I'm for a Muslim country being part of the EU. It will be good for the EU in the long term and it's about time the EU wasn't completely Christian.

So called liberal Europeans (especially when it comes to the Dutch) aren't so liberal after all it seems!

If it wasn't for 911 the world would be a better place for Muslims and the Turkish wouldn't be such a hot potato. Will they get in? I'd say so eventually.

[bradavon]

Top link there Grim cheers. I'm reading it now, tis interesting.

"Germany does not hold referendums" - WTF???

It's interesting how the newer countries to join the EU are much more for it than the old school countries!