The Pope, his failing health

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 30 Mar 2005, 16:37

I'm not a religious person so am not concerned about this in a religious way, but I don't see how any organisation or group of people can make a person work until, or when they are frail and old like he is. I keep hearing on the news he is obviously very ill. Why can't he pass on to someone else?
The poor guy is being fed through a tube in his nose and can't even talk now (since he had an operation or something). Is that right?

Not sure if this should go in Debate or Anything Goes, but maybe it could open up a wider discussion

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 30 Mar 2005, 16:49

Ofcourse it's not right. The church hardly ever does 'the right thing', does it!?

...But in this case, I hope the old worthless bastard is suffering and keeps suffering till the day he croaks.
I hope the next pope does have common sense... but I doubt it.

I like the irony of a guy preaching his whole life how people should live to go to heaven, will probably go to hell himself...

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 30 Mar 2005, 17:24

How come?

Surely the next Pope will do that as well?
He has a lot of pressure on him (the current one) and is too frail and old

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 31 Mar 2005, 01:31

The thing is religion is very much based on rules and ideas set down thousands of years ago with little or no development for the changing world.

Back then it made much more sense and probably was considered right.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 31 Mar 2005, 06:11

I think he's an old bastard cause he has/had HUGE power, and didnt use it to better people's lifes and stop people from having unprotected sex, and he didnt stop other very old and dated ideas, like discrimination against gay people etc. Plus, throughout history, the church and popes have been 'evil' or just plain bad...

ICE-angel · Post by **ICE-angel** » 01 Apr 2005, 15:50

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 01 Apr 2005, 19:01

Yup to me the pope and the Church have killed ten of Millions and could have prevented it all!
they are Evil and I hope they are happy with the blood of many genarations on there hands!

Look how many people are dying or are going to die in the future because of the crap The Pope has said or not said! its a joke and I too hope they all burn in Hell, as they are definaly not going to heaven for murder!

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 01 Apr 2005, 19:45

It looks like the man is very close to death

The last rites have been performed I think.
Romero where's your compassion? Not being religious I don't agree with all he says obviously but he's a very old man, who has held the position a long time (27 years) is obviously loved by many people, and is almost dead (I don't think it'll be peaceful either).

Who becomes Pope after him?

Brad,
I agree BTW. Look at all the wars etc that have gone on in the name of religion.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 01 Apr 2005, 20:29

Compassion?
for a man who only had to say a few words and could have saved Millions of Lives!!!

But HE and the Church didnt and Millions die!!!!!!!!!!!

where was his and the Church's Compassion when millions are dying of Aids,HIV, War and many other countless Evil things make worse by These so called Gods followers!

Fuck him and hope he dies in pain the Evil bastard!

He still has his chance to save millions, but let me guess he will go to his grave before he speaks some words which save lives!

BURN WANKER!

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 01 Apr 2005, 23:59

grim_tales wrote:It looks like the man is very close to death The last rites have been performed I think.
Romero where's your compassion? Not being religious I don't agree with all he says obviously but he's a very old man, who has held the position a long time (27 years) is obviously loved by many people, and is almost dead (I don't think it'll be peaceful either).

SO just because a guy is old, that automatically makes right his past sins!? I'm all for respecting the elderly etc... but the cult-leader of a mass-sect influencing the lifes of millions of people, and in many cases not for the better, doesnt deserve any respect. Like you said, he was loved by millions, so that automatically gives him LOTS of power. He COULD have made things better for gays, and women, and for all those people now living with aids etc... but he didnt. Just because of some bullshit faith.

If you have so much power and influence, use it well, instead of abusing it for your own benefit.

Who becomes Pope after him?

Well... I dont wanna get everyone's hopes up, but I'm expecting a call as we speak

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 02 Apr 2005, 09:47

"If you have so much power and influence, use it well, instead of abusing it for your own benefit."

True, you put it better than Romero does, Yi. I agree with that

Its' funny because I've seen the pictures from around the world in London, Argentina etc, even in China (where there aren't many Chrsitians as Christianity has long been surpressed), people are praying.

Romero I know what you mean, but the way you say it is insensitive don't you think!

Brad and Yi have put it better than you with resorting to crass swearing and disrespect.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 02 Apr 2005, 14:46

Yes I am aware of my disrespectfull tone,
but really he and the church murdered millions so the tone and harsh words are justified a million times over! do you think they think about the millions of people who suffer, I seriosuly dont think so, so my words may be nasty so to say, but hey like them fools I dont care, at least I speak my mind and would say a few words here and there to save millions of people from death and pain! Unlike the Church and The Pope who choose to ignore the people who suffer.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 02 Apr 2005, 17:31

Care to elaborate on how the Pope has killed Millions?

Seriously...

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 02 Apr 2005, 18:17

Well for starters HIV is the BIG one

The Church has stated that using contraception is basically wrong and to do it is a Sin, and because of that reason Millions of people have unprotected sex and catch HIV, its at epidemic proportions in some countries and it would never have been like that is the Church said yes go ahead and protect yourself. But as its a sin in the Churches eyes people are dying and have been catching HIV for a long time now and the poorer countrues are just getting wiped out because of the diseases

a few words from the church a long time ago would have saved countless lives, but they just wont do it ever. Thats just evil to me as its just killing so many people and so many babies are born with that massive tag around there neck, I dont blame the people having sex as its a human function and its mainly striking the poorer countires hard where religion is a way of life and they do what they think God wants them to do for fear of sin. Letting people die like that is not what a religion is about to me, I hate religion, but saying nothing to save countless lives is even worse.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 02 Apr 2005, 18:24

But yes the pope personally hasnt wiped out tyhe people, but as he is the Church spokesman for the world, he surley needed to speak out even if he was told not to! commen sense could save lives.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 02 Apr 2005, 23:40

I happen to agree with your point of view, Romero. I just think "evil fucking scum burn in hell" is maybe a bit much for someone whose worst crime is ignorance. I think the Pope and the Catholic Church are wrong. But I think blaming him if only as a figurehead for AIDS is quite strong. Should he have spoken out in favour of contraception? Of course. But I don't think not doing so is in itself an act of evil as you put it. Now if the Pope intentionally did this to further the spread of AIDS amongst sinners and the like then that would be different. But can that be true? Also where does responsibility end? If someone refuses to use a condom, especially when knowing the risks, because the Pope says so, aren't they the fool?

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 02 Apr 2005, 23:43

the pope has passed on. r.i.p.

i'm a catholic and remember when he visited liverpool years ago.posters here telling him to burn in hell should go and tell that to the hundreds of thousands who turned out that day.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 03 Apr 2005, 09:26

I do think that, as Mark rightly pointed out, Romero's words were OTT

I don't think he would have personally spread AIDS as Romero claims, though of course he should have spoken for contraception.

I heard this morning many other leaders (not just Catholics) spoke about him as well.
I agree BTW Mark, if someone chooses to be blinded by religion so much they don't use common sense but what their religion "tells" them to do, its' their choice, but more fool them IMO.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 03 Apr 2005, 15:10

Well the peope in certain places cannot get condoms anyway, as the church has made it imposable to get hold of them, take Africa for instance

the church have basically stopped the sperad of condoms over there for there own lofty ideals and its costing millions of lives infected with HIV, if people dont think thats wrong then so be it.

Common sense says yes use them, but religion says You are protected by god and you wont catch HIV, tell that to the peole dying right now

he was one man and people are acting like he was god, he did good yes, but come on what about the people who died and are still dying! I dont see that reported on the news!!!!!!!! I hope the next pope uses his own brain and isnt just a church puppet, if he speaks out asap then think of all the lives that may be saved.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 03 Apr 2005, 16:15

I agree, I also think the media coverage was excessive

Of course people should pay their respects but IMO there was no need to go so OTT with the TV coverage reporting back every 1/2 hour etc.
Interestingly Romero I read something on one of them Letter pages (Ceefax) which made the same point you did or similar.

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 03 Apr 2005, 16:24

In my opinion all the people standing in front of the pope's home and those crying at home in front of their TVs are kinda... well... to me it all seems like some kind of personality cult.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 03 Apr 2005, 18:46

thelostdragon wrote:In my opinion all the people standing in front of the pope's home and those crying at home in front of their TVs are kinda... well... to me it all seems like some kind of personality cult.

Erm, don't you follow one of these "personality cults" as you put it?

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 03 Apr 2005, 18:56

Religion?