Saddam has been executed today...

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 30 Dec 2006, 09:58

Hey,

this morning Saddam Hussein has been executed.

According to reports he did not shiver.

It's funny they wait to execute him on a Muslim holiday, on which according to Islam, nobody shall be executed. What a demonstartion of power. Wow! I'm impressed...

...not.

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 30 Dec 2006, 10:40

never agreed with execution...

the dudes an ass of course. but whats more punishment? a quick death or a lifetime in jail? and i think its just irresponsible and vile to video anyones death. i mean you get done for snuff, but no doubt they'll show this on tv somewhere i mean wtf...

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 30 Dec 2006, 10:50

They executed him today on purpose, especially in the morning, before Muslims went to the mosque for the Eid prayer. None of the people in the mosque where I was could focus on the traditional habbits. After the prayer, everybody was talking about Saddam and discussing why it happened today in the morning.

What else could you possibly do to iss a huge amount of people. Arab TV is full of retrospectives right now and specials with interviews and discussions. Everybody, even the people who were followed by Saddam, even people in Iran say that Saddam's death today served a certain purpose which was to diss Muslims around the world and the leaders of Arab countries.

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 30 Dec 2006, 10:59

of course it was. i mean when you look at the news 99% of what you hear about the muslims is bad. they killed our soldiers, they oppose this or that. they wont take of their veils. it makes them look inhuman, beneath the west, which they arent.

i'd never gagree with his execution on anyday but yeah i mean on a muslim holiday its strateigically placed to undermine them or such.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 30 Dec 2006, 11:00

Who decided he should be executed when he was then? The Iraqi court? The Americans? I'm sure it was known what you said LD (under Islam, no-one shall be executed today), why was this an exception

Not sure if this will stop the insurgents, Saddam will just be a martyr to his supporters

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 30 Dec 2006, 11:14

grim_tales wrote:Who decided he should be executed when he was then? The Iraqi court? The Americans? I'm sure it was known what you said LD (under Islam, no-one shall be executed today), why was this an exception
Not sure if this will stop the insurgents, Saddam will just be a martyr to his supporters

Officially, he was handed to the new Iraqi government, but they simply do what is asked of them by the US.

He is not only a martyr for his supporters now. The fact that they killed him today made him a martyr for every Muslim, even those whom he has been following when he was in power. Look at the news.

How come? Because everybody now believes that he got back to Islam. While he was in court, lots of people have been convinced that he was just making a show, with the Qur'an in his hand, in order to gain people's sympathy. Now before his death he said the Shahadah, which is like the statement of faith. He did not say anything else except, "There is no God but God and Mohammad is his Prophet." So he either really got faith back (which is when according to Islam all his sins are washed away), or it was a strategic act in order to create even more chaos after his death.

I'm sure that American troops in Iraq will face more hardship than ever now.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 30 Dec 2006, 13:56

They rushed the execution so that it would take place just before the holiday began (for the reason LD outlined).

I take no moral issue with the putting to death of a such an irredeemable monster, I'm just wary of the politics behind it. Bush and Blair have been responsible for hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths, should they expect a knock on the door from the Iraqi court?

I disagree with the turning him into a martyr for all Muslims bit. If one was already sympathetic that's not going to change, but I find it extremely unlikely anyone who hated him before is now going to feel sorry for him because he's dead. His death doesn't change the horrors he perpetrated to Muslims whilst he was living.

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 30 Dec 2006, 14:25

Markgway wrote:but I find it extremely unlikely anyone who hated him before is now going to feel sorry for him because he's dead. His death doesn't change the horrors he perpetrated to Muslims whilst he was living.

Watch the news, mate. On Alarabija and Al-Jazeera and even some German chanels they are showing interviews with people in the street and those have been followed by Saddam. They even interview people in Iran and they mostly say the same thing: They hated him and it's good he is dead, but it should never have happened by "them" and "today" and since he got back to Islam, they shall oversee his sins.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 30 Dec 2006, 14:56

The way they executed him is very sick IMO. The whole point of America/The British going into Iraq was to give democracy to the country.

But as I heard on the news many Middle Eastern countries such as Iraq have no concept of democracy (or for that matter human rights). It's completely an alien concept.

I couldn't image living in a country where it was normal to walk around with a gun, that's wrong in so many ways and not IMO really a country at all.

If they had to kill him it should've been humane as possible. Hanging is not remotely humane and only proves how far Iraq really has NOT come. They then show it on TV in graphic detail like some reality TV show sickness!

Overall I think it was right to get Sadam out of power but the whole thing since then has been handled so badly it's become a joke.

I'm thinking more and more the troops should leave, let them have their civil war as it's so close to happening anyway, a big portion want a civil war and frankly it's their country so let them blow each other up.

Will ultimately democracy last in a country which as I said doesn't even really want it. I can't see it personally.

grim_tales wrote:Who decided he should be executed when he was then? The Iraqi court? The Americans? I'm sure it was known what you said LD (under Islam, no-one shall be executed today), why was this an exception

It was the Iraq's who sentenced him to death and ultimately executed him. It was a political stunt and as they're Muslims too LD's point doesn't hold much water.

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 30 Dec 2006, 15:16

bradavon wrote:
If they had to kill him it should've been humane as possible. Hanging is not remotely humane and only proves how far Iraq really has NOT come. They then show it on TV in graphic detail like some reality TV show sickness!

hehehehehe sorry but LOL!!!! america is supposed to be a democratic country and modernistic, yet a few of their states still use the death scentence im sure a couple have hanging. but dont quote me on that...and lest not forget that it was only a few decades ago that england abolished hanging, which by the way many are trying to return...AND that it was a family day out in england in the 19th and early 20th century to see someone hanged...now thats sick...

and you really think bush and blair had nothing to do with the date that was set and everything? the whole "Bush and blair dont want to get involved" thing that was on TV had me in stitches. since when do they not get involved with stuff that isnt their business? sorry but they got involved the minute our troops entered iraq. i dont see them pulling out of controlling decisions now, do you?

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 30 Dec 2006, 15:24

Fair point I never knew some American states still used hanging but most I'm sure use a lethal injection. Don't get me wrong I wasn't saying it's remotely right just more humane.

To be honest to compare America as a democracy and Iraq as a democracy equally is being incredibly simplistic. America has it's faults sure (what country doesn't) but the American democracy is so far more advanced it's not funny.

and lest not forget that it was only a few decades ago that england abolished hanging, which by the way many are trying to return...AND that it was a family day out in england in the 19th and early 20th century to see someone hanged...now thats sick...

Like you said it was decades ago, move on.

Of course there will always be someone who differ from most people's opinion but will Britain have the death penalty again I seriously can't see it.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 30 Dec 2006, 16:22

thelostdragon wrote:They even interview people in Iran and they mostly say the same thing: They hated him and it's good he is dead, but it should never have happened by "them" and "today" and since he got back to Islam, they shall oversee his sins.

I wasn't disputing the first part. I question the "them" part too (obviously the "today" means something only to Islam) so I insist just because Muslims feel this way doesn't mean they martyr him just that they disapprove of the American-Iraqi handling of the execution, as do many, which I feel is a different matter. I would think very few non-supporters would be upset by his demise. I can't seen anyone being gullible enough to believe Saddam "got back to Islam" since he spend most of his reign murdering innocent Muslims, but nothing surprises me these days. Religious people are most gullible.

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 30 Dec 2006, 17:02

murder can never be humane....by injection or hanging...

you say get over the fact that it was only in 1964 that the UK stopped hanging people... thats only 42 years ago. i dont think we are an advanced country, 40% of live in poverty, the goverment suck, they sure as hell dont listen to what we say, we said no to the war in iraq, did they listen? we said pull them out, did they listen? we ask for better healthcare, do they listen? education? financial help? have they listened to anything we asked or moved for? as far as i can see...not really. thats not democracy. we dont have a say in the laws passed, or the new bills, we "elect" people who make these decisions, but without our input. that to me is not democracy...america is the same.

i personally dont think the world is as advanced as it should be. yeah we have all these new little gadgets and can go into space and shit but we arent advanced where it counts, mentally, emotionall, even spiritually.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 30 Dec 2006, 17:25

Shen wrote:murder can never be humane....by injection or hanging...

I didn't say it was humane it's just more humane but yes I disagree of course injecting someone compared to strangulation is more humane.

How can it not be? Should Sadam have been executed probably not, will I lose any sleep over it certainly not.

Shen wrote:you say get over the fact that it was only in 1964 that the UK stopped hanging people... thats only 42 years ago.

Exactly. Britain is almost an entirely different country to 1964. How long does time have to pass before it's considered history?

42 years, my god none of us here (AFAIK) were even born then.

Shen wrote:the goverment suck

Governments have always sucked, what's new?

Shen wrote:we dont have a say in the laws passed, or the new bills, we "elect" people who make these decisions, but without our input.

Of course we do by electing them, we choose who should be in power based on what they stand for. Sure we don't have a say in every new bill but how on earth would that be possible? There are over 70 million people in this country.

Besides my only point was compared to some other countries British the government do an excellent job (that's not to say based on Western governments they do a great job). It could easily be far worse.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 30 Dec 2006, 18:50

Now seek out the thousands who acctually carried out the orders etc..

Hanging was letting him off, he should have been tortured for years.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 30 Dec 2006, 20:04

I thought it was 1960, Ruth Ellis was the last person to be hanged in the UK in 1960, AFAIK

Punishing murder with murder is hypocritical isnt it?

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 30 Dec 2006, 20:13

grim_tales wrote:I thought it was 1960, Ruth Ellis was the last person to be hanged in the UK in 1960, AFAIK

Ruth Ellis was the last woman to be hanged, in 1955. however the last executions were in 1964

wikipedia wrote:Robert Leslie Stewart and Harry Allen, who conducted the last British executions in 1964.

In 1965 Parliament passed the "Murder (Abolition of Death Penalty) Act" abolishing capital punishment for murder. And with the introduction of the Human Rights Act in 1998, the death penalty was officially abolished for all crimes in both civilian and military cases.

Punishing murder with murder is hypocritical isnt it?

yup...

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 30 Dec 2006, 20:45

Thanks Shen, I didnt realise that...

(re: Ruth Ellis). I read capital punishment for murder was abolished in 1969, I may be wrong though.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 31 Dec 2006, 02:35

I found out about this really late, because of all the Eid stuff going on in the morning; I didn't hear anyone talk about it at the mosque either. I found out about his execution at 2.00 pm (-ish) when I was trying out the Wii's network connectivity and used the BBC site as a test (it's easy to type in using the Wii-mote

).
The guy's dead, but he chose it as a possibility that might eventually befall him the day he became a dictator/stooge-for-the-American-government (delete as your mind sees fit).
Nearing death, most people tend to ask for help and/or forgiveness from the Almighty, so I take his utterance of proclaiming his faith anew with a pinch of salt. If he's sincere, then so be it, and he may be able to ask for forgiveness. If it's not, then whatever.

As for his execution being filmed, I think the reason was so that it could be proved he was actually dead, as opposed to any morbid reason (though I'm not discounting that entirely), because if it wasn't filmed, then someone somewhere would say that some patsy was killed in his place and it's a big conspiracy and blah, blah, blah.

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 31 Dec 2006, 10:43

True, but was there any need to add that dodgy music?

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 31 Dec 2006, 10:47

I agree Kurgan, that's probably the reason - say at executions, the executioner would hold up the person's head to prove they were dead - it does seem a bit morbid seeing Saddam on the front page though.
I can't beleive some people would go from hating Saddam, or at least not supporting him, to switching just because he's dead

The execution happened at dawn, so just before the holiday.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 31 Dec 2006, 14:38

They guy was a bad guy, and he deserved everthing he got.

On the other hand, many people are not completely sure if the guy has gotten a fair trial, and ARE pretty sure this is all just more about America using this for all it's worth. So it kinda leaves a sour taste in our mouths I guess.

I just wish every war criminal would get this treatment, so that one day we'd see Bush's neck ina rope... and Cheney's... and Rumsfeld's... and all those other criminals from all over the world who are killing people right and left, but dont make it onto the CNN cause they're countries dont have oil and are of no interest to the USA or the western world. Sadly, that wont ever happen.

They say justice is blind. I feel justice chooses to close it's eyes for certain nations' crimes.

All in all, I wont miss Saddam and it's good he's dead. He WAS a bad man. But I'm not sure if he was worse then Bush.

BTW: werent there rumours that Saddam's capture in that pit was STAGED? That they actually caught Saddam in a small country house, while Saddam was shooting avoid being captured?

I know the statue topling was staged.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 31 Dec 2006, 14:55

I heard that (about his capture being staged) and the statue toppling. But I thought that was symbolic for the people saying "his regime is over" sort of thing.
I agree its been on the news too much, but he was a bad man and a complete asshole. It's good he's gone as you say.
Maybe they were just making sure a Saddam double hadn't been hanged by mistake?

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 31 Dec 2006, 16:25

grim_tales wrote:I heard that (about his capture being staged) and the statue toppling. But I thought that was symbolic for the people saying "his regime is over" sort of thing.
I agree its been on the news too much, but he was a bad man and a complete asshole. It's good he's gone as you say.
Maybe they were just making sure a Saddam double hadn't been hanged by mistake?

I've been thinking about all those Saddam doubles as well. Amazing isnt it, that the 1st Saddam they captured also happened to be the 'real' Saddam. Those doubles must have been sighing of relief in their hide-outs

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 31 Dec 2006, 17:42

What next a Sadam tribute band?

Yi-Long wrote:I know the statue topling was staged.

In that they went to the bother to erect a fake statue??? When a real one did exist.