Scandinavia outlaws iTunes

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 26 Jan 2007, 20:00

http://blogs.pcworld.com/digitalworld/a ... tlaws.html

Apple has until October 1 to open up Fairplay to other companies, or face fines and the threat of iTunes being closed down in Norway. Since the first option is about as likely as Satan skating to work, Apple's only choice in the long run -- assuming endless legal wrangling fails -- will be to close iTunes in Norway, and possibly other European countries. I wonder how many consumers would go for that?

I completely agree but the likelihood is it will just hurt consumers more. Apple aren't going t care about Norway but if the whole of European said the same then just maybe.

That would be nice but I doubt it's going to happen.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 27 Jan 2007, 01:55

Not a big deal anyway. I don't see Death Metal being a big seller on iTunes in the first place.

gojensen · Post by **gojensen** » 29 Jan 2007, 09:20

Erm. It's "all" Scandinavian countries... and we've now got support from the French and the Germans. Come again how Apple's going to ignore that?

Besides there are many IPODs sold in Norway and the iTunes Music Store is doing pretty good business for such a small country.

The issue is really twofold though (I think);
- FairPlay not being really "fair"
- Apple not legally being able to change the EULA at their whim (as they do...)

This last is an issue in most European countries I think, but the "US" based companies seems to think that an electronic EULA which you don't need to sign and which will render your purchase invalid if you disagree with it is legally binding. Bullcrap.

(I.e. with iTunes if I bought a lot of music using itunes, then Apple decided to change the EULA and I didn't like the new one - they'd lock out my already purchased content - which is illegal...)

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 29 Jan 2007, 20:11

gojensen wrote:Erm. It's "all" Scandinavian countries... and we've now got support from the French and the Germans. Come again how Apple's going to ignore that?

Don't shoot the messenger

. That's Slashdot's not my heading.

I'm all for this kind of DRM fighting. IMO the whole concept of DRM should be illegal. I only meant by my addition that "Do most consumers really care?" They're happy to stick with the Ipod so ITunes for enternity?

But yes I'm all for it. Apple has had a monopoly for to long. MS get loads of shit thrown at them for being a monopoly, it's time to throw some Apple's way.

gojensen wrote:Bullcrap.

Don't hold back you can say Bullshit here if you like

I wonder if the exclusion of WMA from the Ipod is MS blocking Apple or Apple specifically not using it. The way I see it:

1. Ipod - AAC or MP3 only - ITunes AAC only so locked into Ipod
2. Others MP3 + most WMA (not all WMA DRM though) so any store but ITunes. Apple won't let any other manufacturer uses AAC so they're the bad guys in letting others use ITunes but who is stopping Ipod users using others?

I've never worked out this control thing anyway, except for Ipod sales you're preventing ALL other non-Ipod owners from using Itunes so losing money in the process.

Personally I'd only ever use an online store if it used the only truly universal format MP3. I honestly would use them for the odd track (Albums I'd still get on CD) but not until then. My Car MP3 Player for starters can only play MP3s.

gojensen wrote:Erm. It's "all" Scandinavian countries... and we've now got support from the French and the Germans. Come again how Apple's going to ignore that?

How far forward are Germany and France though? Aren't Norway the furtherest forward?

BTW when you say it's all of Scandinavia is it literally? When each has a separate government and economy. You're right though if France and Germany which have massive populations (the biggest two in Europe, followed very closely by the UK) are as ahead then Apple won't be able to ignore it.

It does make me chuckle all these European laws causing trouble for American companies. They seem to be much more lax in America. Not long ago MS were forced to release Vista kernel details to the Virus manufacturers so they could release Vista Ready programs. Originally they had no plans too, which would've been no good for anyone.

Vista without a virus checker? No thanks.

gojensen · Post by **gojensen** » 31 Jan 2007, 08:51

Erm... don't you go confusing AAC (which is a superior audio codec) with Apples DRM-infected AAC.

Any player can make support for AAC (and many have) - though that doesn't mean it will play back itunes bought songs... though it may very well playback cds you've converted with itunes (as I doubt itunes DRMs your CDs - for one this would leave the drm encryption engine out in the wild).

Bradavon wrote:How far forward are Germany and France though? Aren't Norway the furtherest forward?

It may have started here, but it only "springboarded" when the other Scandinavians joined... and as I understand it the French and Germans have put their full weight behind the "Norwegian" proposals.

This can turn out good. At least SOME good will likely come from it... MOST likely Apple will just begin licensing their DRM (at extravagant prices so only folks like CREATIVE will be tempted to make iTMS compatible players) and probably relent a bit with their EULA. Though of course, I would love for these same folks to have a look at the EULAs of online MMOs... they are much worse in comparison to our European laws and rights than what Apple is doing...

Bradavon wrote:Vista without a virus checker? No thanks.

I think MS' idea was for you to use... MS-AntiVirus-Explorer-3.0

Or for say Symantec and McAffee to only build FrontEnds and rely on MS kernel engine for scanning... Personally I'm kind of agreeing with MS to keep folks out of the Kernel. If they can make it safe enough so that hackers won't get into it there would be no need for other folks to access it either... however, that won't happen will it?

Another thing though...

Windows Vista? No thanks.

(At least this side of summer...)

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 31 Jan 2007, 22:56

gojensen wrote:Erm... don't you go confusing AAC (which is a superior audio codec) with Apples DRM-infected AAC.

I wasn't. WMA has DRM or no DRM too. There is even WMA Pro but like MP3 Pro sod all supports it. According to Wikipedia WMA Pro uses a completely different codec to WMA.

gojensen wrote:Any player can make support for AAC (and many have) - though that doesn't mean it will play back itunes bought songs... though it may very well playback cds you've converted with itunes (as I doubt itunes DRMs your CDs - for one this would leave the drm encryption engine out in the wild).

I doubt it does to. That's exactly the same way WMA works.

gojensen wrote:and as I understand it the French and Germans have put their full weight behind the "Norwegian" proposals.

Good on them. The French and German governments are all but married anyway

gojensen wrote:This can turn out good. At least SOME good will likely come from it... MOST likely Apple will just begin licensing their DRM (at extravagant prices so only folks like CREATIVE will be tempted to make iTMS compatible players) and probably relent a bit with their EULA.

That would be interesting. It annoyed me I had to enter credit card details (I even tried using dud data and it was having none of it) JUST to download Album Art.

gojensen wrote:Though of course, I would love for these same folks to have a look at the EULAs of online MMOs... they are much worse in comparison to our European laws and rights than what Apple is doing...

MMOs?

gojensen wrote:Or for say Symantec and McAffee to only build FrontEnds and rely on MS kernel engine for scanning... Personally I'm kind of agreeing with MS to keep folks out of the Kernel. If they can make it safe enough so that hackers won't get into it there would be no need for other folks to access it either... however, that won't happen will it?

I reckon that was the original idea yes and no they won't be able to (keep hackers out).

If they had got their way it would've been ultra sucky to Norton and the like as MS have now released their own Suite Live OneCare to Europe.

gojensen wrote:Windows Vista? No thanks. (At least this side of summer...)

Agreed 2-3 months but 6-8 months man that's to long and unnecessary. Things will pick up quickly over the next 2-3 months.

I'll have Vista long by then.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 01 Feb 2007, 00:42

bradavon wrote:MMOs?

Massive Multiplayer Online Games. Eg Everquest, Worlds of Warcraft.

gojensen · Post by **gojensen** » 01 Feb 2007, 08:23

What s/he said ^^^...

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 01 Feb 2007, 20:59

Yeah Eva does act like an old hag sometimes

p.s - Thanks. I've never played one. I did play multiplayer Doom/Duke Nukem 3D over a LAN years back but that was it.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 02 Feb 2007, 01:03

bradavon wrote:p.s - Thanks. I've never played one. I did play multiplayer Doom/Duke Nukem 3D over a LAN years back but that was it.

I wouldn't recommend playing one either, unless you don't mind parting with fucking $16USD per month for the subscription fee.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 02 Feb 2007, 01:41

They charge!!! Oh screw that. I'd buy the initial software, that's it. After that it's a cheek to expect more.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 02 Feb 2007, 02:34

bradavon wrote:They charge!!! Oh screw that. I'd buy the initial software, that's it. After that it's a cheek to expect more.

It's expensive to run and maintain their massive servers. Thousands of people are on them perpetually. MMOGs are constantly in development years after they ship too.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 02 Feb 2007, 02:43

But there's only World Of Warcraft that's meant to be any good. I've played Star Wars Galaxies and The Matrix Online but stopped on each after a few months. My brother plays WOW on and off and it's the smoothest of any of the MMORPGs.
Blizzard (the developers of the game) must be making a mint. It's roughly £9 a month (cheaper if you buy for several months at a time) and this games has something like 8 million subscribers. That is an awful lot of money to be making, even when you deduct the cost of the staff, servers etc. etc. Huge level of profit.

gojensen · Post by **gojensen** » 03 Feb 2007, 16:39

Uhm, there's Guild Wars though... Play for free

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 07 Feb 2007, 13:32

Apple's retort to the DRM issue. Also summarised here.

The rub comes from the music Apple sells on its online iTunes Store. Since Apple does not own or control any music itself, it must license the rights to distribute music from others, primarily the "big four" music companies: Universal, Sony BMG, Warner and EMI. These four companies control the distribution of over 70 per cent of the world’s music.
When Apple approached these companies to license their music to distribute legally over the Internet, they were extremely cautious and required Apple to protect their music from being illegally copied. The solution was to create a DRM system, which envelopes each song purchased from the iTunes store in special and secret software so that it cannot be played on unauthorized devices.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 07 Feb 2007, 17:13

More iTunes related shenanigans.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 07 Feb 2007, 22:11

Wholly shit I never thought I'd read Steve Jobs was against DRM, even if maybe it's a marketing ploy

Still it's a long way if at all before we get rid of DRM and as that BBC article states it's more likely DRM will just be opened up, which is a fat lot of good for MP3 Players which are to old to get firmware upgrades.

As far as I'm concerned it's MP3 or nothing, anything else I'll still avoid. My Car Hard Disk MP3 Player which is amazing only plays MP3s, nothing more.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 07 Feb 2007, 22:16

bradavon wrote:Wholly shit I never thought I'd read Steve Jobs was against DRM, even if maybe it's a marketing ploy

Do you mean that it is shit in its entirety, or the religious kind?

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 07 Feb 2007, 22:25

It's entirety.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 07 Feb 2007, 22:30

It's just one grammatical error after another with you, isn't it?

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 08 Feb 2007, 02:14

Nope. You guys just like to pick on mine but blatantly ignore everyone else's.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 08 Feb 2007, 02:19

Yeah, because the errors of others are nowhere near as entertaining as yours

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 08 Feb 2007, 19:43