Andrew Marr's History of Modern Britain - BBC2

[grim_tales]

Did anyone see this? I thought it was very good, I missed the first couple of episodes though.
It was interesting as they were many things I recognised certainly (trade union dispute, Bloody Sunday, anti Vietnam marches, 3 day week etc) but didnt fully know (if you see what I mean). Eg I didnt know Enoch Powell got so much support after his infamous, disgraceful "Rivers of Blood" speech
Sometimes when watching it I thought "Has anything changed?" I mean, for Vietnam, substitute Iraq, for Kenyans, substitute asylum seekers/Muslims, people were still moaning about immigrants/teenagers and students/music back then as well (the segment on David Bowie).

[slasher13]

for Kenyans, substitute asylum seekers/Muslims

You do realise that kenyans were also muslims who came over here, eg my mum and her family came from Kenya over here on the early 70's

[grim_tales]

I apologise Slasher, I didnt know that

[EvaUnit02]

for Kenyans, substitute asylum seekers/Muslims

You do realise that kenyans were also muslims who came over here, eg my mum and her family came from Kenya over here on the early 70's

To frie Chickins

Take your chickins and let them boyle in verye good sweete broath a prittye while, and take the chickins out, and quarter them out in peeces, and then put them into a Frying pan with sweete butter, and let them stewe in the pan, but you must not let them be browne with frying, and then put out the butter out of the pan, and then take a little sweet broath, and as much Vergice, and the yolkes of two Egges, and beate them together, and put in a little Nutmegges, synamon and Ginger, and Pepper into the sauce, and then put them all into hte pan to the chickins, and stirre them together in the pan, and put them into a dish, and serve them by.

[Markgway]

Eg I didnt know Enoch Powell got so much support after his infamous, disgraceful "Rivers of Blood" speech

Maybe he foresaw July 7th 2005?

It's not foreigners who are the problem, it's foreigners who want to turn Britain into a mini-version of their homeland. These people aren't British and never will be (and sometimes that even goes for ones who are born here). It's not about skin colour, it's about attitude.

[grim_tales]

I see no problem with Chinatowns or whatever though, isnt that a similar idea? Still they're not going around trying to asimalate everyone to be Chinese or whatever When you go to a foreign country, you should always try to blend in to a degree, speak the language etc, if you live there you should do the same, but I'd be very surprised if you didnt have something to remind you of home. It'd be ludicrous if you were so determinedly English (or French or whatever) in the country you were in, if it was France. Does that make sense?

[bradavon]

@ Mark: To be fair Brits are EXACTLY the same abroad. Just look at all the ex-pat communities all over the freaking world. Roppongi in Tokyo is a Mini-America. Why do we all call them Ex-pats but those who come to our shores migrants?

I find that very dubious. From my perspective The McCanns are migrants. Migrant is just short for Immigrant.

How long do people have to live in a country before they're considered Nationals and not Migrants? The whole argument is bollocks, take migrants out of a country it's economy will literally fall to bits.

Personally I don't give a monkeys if they're "really" British or consider themselves British. As long as they contribute to the British economy, which statistically mostly they do.

On contrast (Mexicans aside) the American culture embraces immigration, whereas our culture does not. Which I find odd because we wouldn't be where we are today without immigration.

Eg I didnt know Enoch Powell got so much support after his infamous, disgraceful "Rivers of Blood" speech

Oh jeez he got loads. There are a lot of igorrant and smalled minded people in the country, who have an opinion without any evidence to back it up.

I recently had discussion over this with my brother in law. He didn't have much to say when I pointed out the economy needs immigration.

[bradavon]

I missed it. I wonder if it will be repeated???

[grim_tales]

Related to it (sort of) is the problem Johnny Speight had with the Alf Garnett character in Til Death Us Do Part - he was written as an outrageous, OTT stereotype, with offensive views but it was obvious that people quite liked him

[bradavon]

Bollocks it's not being repeated but is a series, at least 2 more episodes to come:

http://www.onthebox.com/partner/otb/sea ... rew%20Marr

[Markgway]

Chinatown's are more like tourist attractions than anything else these days... I'm talking about the ghettoisation in urban neighbourhoods. But that said, yeah I think the Chinese can be very insular, they just tend to be very quiet about it. Aside from takeaways you hardly ever see them around our way...

Immigration is fine, as long as it's not at the expense of the indiginous populace. That's a concept that politicians (who all live in fancy houses in rich areas) seem to have trouble with.

With regards to me moving abroad: of course I wouldn't give up my Scottishness. I'm 27 years old, not like I'm gonna start fresh. But I would respect local customs and laws, and try my damndest to blend in with society, make new friends and assimilate myself with (eg) Japanese culture. You can do that successfully without denying your background. But when migrants come to Britain they're virtually told they don't have to bother as "we" will fit in with them. That's where this nonsense multicultralism has come from. Britain never was a multicultural society, like America. It sort of landed in our laps.

[grim_tales]

It might be repeated - BBC3/4 are always repeating things.
Mark, fair enough. I was just using Chinatown as an example, I didnt mean to single the Chinese out per se, substitute Little Tokyo/Italy or whatever as well.
But it also reminds me of The Simpsons episode when they go to Japan and they just go to America Town Or the Australia one where the water drains counter (anti) clockwise in their hotel room
Agreed Mark good point, maybe a balance has to be struck between embracing new/different cultures and retaining your own

[bradavon]

Aside from takeaways you hardly ever see them around our way...

How often do you actively go into these so called urban areas?

Immigration is fine, as long as it's not at the expense of the indiginous populace.

Well there are virtually no in indiginous people living in the UK any more, we've all got all sorts of races and nationalities mixed in with us.

I'm a product of immigration, does that make me a migrant? Hell I'm technically more Irish than British.

But when migrants come to Britain they're virtually told they don't have to bother as "we" will fit in with them. That's where this nonsense multicultralism has come from. Britain never was a multicultural society, like America. It sort of landed in our laps.

What like all the "Ex-Pat" schools do in Portugal and Spain? You may assimilate but few in reality do, from any nation.

I see your point but it's flawed. The British Empire brought immigration to Britain over 400 years ago. It's been part of Britain for centuries now, how long does it need to be to become normal instead of landed on our laps?

[grim_tales]

Yeah, and the Angles, Saxons and Jutes were immigrants (well invaders), the Normans were really Vikings who had settled in Northern France. I guess if you trace the bloodline back far enough, a lot of people here may have ancestory (sp?) of other places than England/Britain.

[bradavon]

The percentage of true indigenous people in virtually every country of the world is minute. It's all small minded bollocks, thinking about the specifics but not the bigger picture.

Thanks again to the British Empire we've had a large Asian and in particular Indian culture for centuries, are they not entitled to the same rights as White Brits, while maintaining a link to their country of heritage? Which is really what indigenous means here. Indigenous equals White.

What about second/third generation Brits from Indian descent? They think British, sound British, are they not British?

Just look at this bollocks from some UKIP dick head: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6730769.stm

Thank god UKIP don't have the power to get into power. If they ever did I'd leave.

[Markgway]

How often do you actively go into these so called urban areas?

All the time as I live in one you middle class ponce. 8)

Well there are virtually no in indiginous people living in the UK any more, we've all got all sorts of races and nationalities mixed in with us.

Really? Most Scots I know are Scottish by generation with at best a mix of Irish. Hardly multicultural is it? Besides I'm talking about culture not race.

I'm a product of immigration, does that make me a migrant? Hell I'm technically more Irish than British.

Then fuck off back to the bogs, you potato farmer!!

What like all the "Ex-Pat" schools do in Portugal and Spain? You may assimilate but few in reality do, from any nation.

Well they SHOULD.

I see your point but it's flawed. The British Empire brought immigration to Britain over 400 years ago. It's been part of Britain for centuries now, how long does it need to be to become normal instead of landed on our laps?

You're confusing immigration with multi-culturalism. Immigration is centuries old. Multi-culturalism has developed only in the last 30 years. Before then immigrants becamse British. Now they're encouraged not to -- and not only that but 'our' Britishness is decried just in case we offend these non-Brits. The left is all too eager to tie up race and immigration and culture as one package so that if you criticize one you're critizing them all - and naturally therefore being a racist. This is now used to stifle needed debate.