MP3 vs FLAC

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 17 Jun 2007, 14:38

I ripped a CD to both MP3 and FLAC. TBH I could hear hardly any difference, the FLAC sound a bit better though.

I used Foobar2000 w/ LAME 3.97 at VBR ~230KB/s (V0) and FLAC 1.1.4b at Level 8.

In conclusion, lossless compression is overrated. A properly ripped MP3 can sound almost as good.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 17 Jun 2007, 14:47

I couldn't tell any difference. I didn't spend long on it though tbh. The space Flac takes up means it's worthless for me.

For "Audio CD" lossless I'll stick with the original CD and for everything else I use MP3 or WMA, the latter only for my Mini MP3 Player and I hope to sell that by the end of the year. It's 6Gb and the 10Gb players just aren't enough to warrant an upgrade (8Gb Mini + 2Gb MicroSD card).

I still say MP3 is the only format 99% of people need. It's also the only compressed format 100% of well everything can play.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 17 Jun 2007, 14:49

bradavon wrote:I couldn't tell any difference. I didn't spend long on it though tbh.

You have shit onboard sound so you couldn't hardly judge anything properly.

I'll upload some samples for everyone. 7Zip compression is so much better than RAR. Too bad the 7Zip user interface is poor, but it does have SMP and true x64 support.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 17 Jun 2007, 14:57

Well you did say you could hardly tell any difference too. Besides shit on board sound or not I used the same shit on board sound for both so your point doesn't mean much, expect where it's possible a better sound card would pick up the nuisances in FLAC.

Even if that were true I wouldn't give a shit MP3 sounds fine, works in everything I need it to and wouldn't take up the earth. Sure "works fine" is often an excuse people use when they can't be bothered to change but then tbh when it comes to audio formats I can rarely ever tell any difference. My WMAs are at 64Kbps and sound virtually the same as my MP3s at 128Kbps

(although the MP3s do sound a wee bit better).

Besides I need MP3 as my car stereo only play back MP3 so it's a bit of a moot point how good FLAC sounds. It's a fantastic (albeit a bit quirky) car stereo so there's no way I'm getting rid of it. It has a 2.5" hard drive bay so no need to mess around with silly mp3 player adapters or cabling.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 17 Jun 2007, 15:19

I've uploaded the sample, please give them a listen and report back.
http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~adebr ... ndtest.zip

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 17 Jun 2007, 15:22

WinZip 11 doesn't support 7z. Please re-upload it in a "standard" Web format, such as ZIP or RAR. I presume WinRAR can open 7z files but I've no need for it any more, now WinZip can read RAR Files.

Why use such an odd file format?

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 17 Jun 2007, 15:39

bradavon wrote:WinZip 11 doesn't support 7z. Please re-upload it in a "standard" Web format, such as ZIP or RAR. I presume WinRAR can open 7z files but I've no need for it any more, now WinZip can read RAR Files.

Why use such an odd file format?

Best compression format around. WinRAR supports it. I'm surprised that WinFagZip doesn't support it, it's an open source format. It is not an odd format, it's replacing RAR as the nerd's format of choice.
http://www.7-zip.org/download.html

EDIT: Zip uploaded, download dude.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 17 Jun 2007, 15:58

In 11 versions Nico Mark have only just added RAR to WinZip

. Sure technically WinRAR is better it's just I've never liked the interface and have always liked WinZip's.

Personally I don't like the ZIP Folder approach. WinZip does support about 2 dozen formats most of which I never see.

As for best compression pah you don't need to switch formats constantly just to tweak that bit more out of the file. WinZip 11 adds loads of better compression formats to the original 2.04 spec. (some maybe even beating RAR) but I still use 2.04 ZIP compression. It's enough and like MP3 is the Universal.

I could download it but what would it achieve? I've already done my own and tests and like I said neither my MP3 Player or Car player supports FLAC so it's a moot point to me.

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 17 Jun 2007, 18:16

7-Zip is terribly inefficient, you can get a few extra % on some datasets over RAR but it's so much slower, has less features and doesn't have a nice program like WinRAR built around it. RAR is a much more efficient format. Zip is very close behind RAR, but it lacks the features.

MP3 Vs. FLAC. I can ABX thw two at any bitrate but yes there's hardly a difference between high bitrate lossy formats and lossless compression. I use lossless to get the maximum quality and to archive and organise my music nicely. If space in a concern for you then I'd suggest musepack, lossy but transparent at higher bitrates. Downside is zero support on portables which is why I stick to FLAC. If I want to send someone a file or what have you it's easy to transcode to MP3.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 18 Jun 2007, 11:09

*Listening to samples*

Errr... MP3 still sounds a bit... tinny... in the high notes (IMO).
FLAC is slightly clearer.

Could be decoder-related, though.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 18 Jun 2007, 19:33

tom2681 wrote:Errr... MP3 still sounds a bit... tinny... in the high notes (IMO).
FLAC is slightly clearer.

And you have to weigh that up against the huge file size increase of FLAC over MP3 (even at 320Kbps) plus the virtually zero support of FLAC on Players (not just portables).

MP3 is where it's at for me, now and the foreseeable future.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 18 Jun 2007, 23:55

I found out about this alternative open source firmware for the major brand portable players.
http://www.rockbox.org/

Eg It can be dual-booted with the Ipod firmware and easily removed if you needed to send your Ipod to be serviced.

The DRM shit and lack of support for "nerdy formats" (not that I'd use anything aside from MP3 anyway. But I'd still like the option of eg OGG available to me.) that portable players have is one of the reasons why I put off buying one. Now I may get one one of these days.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 19 Jun 2007, 18:31

Rock box is infamous across the MP3 world. I've never tried it myself but the project (Rock box is more a project then firmware) has been ported to a slew of MP3 Players.

IMO if you want OGG and the simplicity of UMS (USB Mass Storage) so no lock in to ITunes just get an MP3 Player from the likes of iRiver or iAudio, both offer OGG out of the box on most of their MP3 Players.

IMO iRiver shit all over Ipod but it does depend what you want out of your MP3 Player. You can't fault the Ipods looks.

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 20 Jun 2007, 04:11

All the decent MP3 players support Vorbis and FLAC, all the ones from Asian companies.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 20 Jun 2007, 19:54

Not all but many. FLAC on a 32Mb MP3 Player anyone?

iAudio and iRiver tend to be the two best makes, especially the latter. Both are South Korean. Sandisk make some nice MP3 Players too.