Michael Jackson

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 15 Jun 2005, 09:31

Anyone see "Michael Jackson: The Verdict" on BBC3 last night? Quite interesting. Looked at the guy's past genius but also spoke about why he's so troubled, and looks at himself in the way he does (see Brit Awards 1996

) Messiah complex, to use the words of one person.
He "sort of" does that in the Earth Song video as well (saves the world by himself) but that is a dramatic, stirring piece of music and very good so I forgive that

Is his skin really the result of multiple plastic surgery? If so how come its' paler over the years? I always thought he had vitiligo (sp?) - causing his skin to go pale.
But I didnt know he had surgery because of the pepsi ad going wrong.

Not sure what to make of the verdict at the moment, I'm not a rabid Jackson supporter (though I do like the music). He may as mad as a barrel of monkeys but he was found not guilty and thats that!
If there's not enough evidence you can't acquit someone, simple as that.

degeneration · Post by **degeneration** » 15 Jun 2005, 10:04

Quite obviously I don't know all the facts regarding his recent case, so my opinions are clearly tainted, but to me this does seem a little bit like another OJ case. Money and fame has bought freedom again.

He admitted giving the kids wine or some alcohol, he admitted having kids sleep in his bed, yet he was found innocent of everything? I don't buy it...

But didn't see the documentary... as I have no great taste for the 'man' in any way, as a famous icon, a singer or anything, I could happily go the rest of my life without seeing, reading or hearing anything about him again.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 15 Jun 2005, 10:30

You'd have a job doing that

On the BBC docu I heard that the jury panel (6 members or something) said while they believed Jackson didnt do the things he was accused of, he wasnt totally innocent either (if that makes sense). He did let the kids sleep in his bed for sure, even his lawyer admitted as much by saying "He won't do that anymore" which is indeed dodgy.

Also they were indimidated by things like the mother snapping her fingers when reading each accusation.
Clearly he needs help though, even the name of his ranch suggests he's like a child in a man's body

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 15 Jun 2005, 14:27

I dont care for whacko jacko, so here's my take on it...

• He's made some very good music
• but he was also responsible for some Awfull, tedious music (Earth Song wasnt 'a dramatic, stirring piece of music and very good' - it was total SHITE!)
• There is nothing wrong with sleeping in the same bed with kids, IF they are your own kids and IF you dont touch them. Mike might 'feel' like a kid, but he clearly isnt one. He aint completely braindead I think, so he shouldnt have gotten in the same bed with them. I'm not sure if he did or didnt touch them, but I saw Mike enter the courtroom in his PJ's and I can already safely say that ugly image has caused me some traumatic feelings. imagine waking up in the middle of the night and Michael is spooning you... (!)
• Nothing wrong with giving kids a lil zip of alcohol. Everyone here has had an uncle or a parent who slipped you a lil taste of his beer, wine or whatever...
It IS wrong to do so, with the intention of getting the kids DRUNK, or 'loose' or whatever.
• ... as is browsing through porn-mags with lil kids. How sick is that?

I dont know if he raped or groped or whatever. I'm sure SOMETHING has happened. The guy has lost his marbles. If you can abuse your OWN body like he has, what would stop him from abusing someone else's!?

I'm also sure there are families who will try and take advantage of jackson's vulnerable position (which he has himself to blame for...) to try and get money out of him.

So I'm not sure if he's guilty in THIS case, of sexually abusing/harassing the kid...

Personally, I also blame the parents. How stupid are you to send your kid to sleep over at neverland? What's next? getting the kids a pet-panda to cuddle up with!? You KNOW it's a bad idea! 'Aw but it looks so cute and innocent....'

It's kinda sad... The King of Pop turns out to be a braindead, out of touch with reality, pedophile, and the queen of pop (Madonna, or Madge as she likes to be called ...) turns out to be the queen of hypocrisy...

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 15 Jun 2005, 14:33

I like Earth Song, but Heal The World was shite

His 80's stuff is best IMO.
Gavin Arvizo was hardly a little kid when it happened, you are right though, giving kids wine to get them drunk IS wrong.
I'm sure kids/boys have porn in their room as well

I agree it is dodgy though (looking through porn with younger kids).
I agree the parents may have wanted to try and get money out of him.
Will this stick though? Remember the prosecution tracked back 10 years to find all the evidence they could, but he's not guilty. Do you think he can make a comeback?
Mind you, he did a few years ago (You Rock My World), it was hardly his greatest ever song was it?

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 15 Jun 2005, 15:18

Jackson is clearly in desperate need of mental help. His traumatic childhood has given him a Peter Pan complex (Christ, he lives in Neverland!!) and left him emotionally stunted. He's a 10 yr-old boy in a middle-aged man's body. It's sad more than anything else. I don't believe Jackson is a paedophile because he sees himself as a kid himself. I honestly think his view of childhood is non-sexual. "We" as mature adults see it differently to him. "We" assume that nay contact betwen an adult and a child not of their own must surely be sexual? Whic perhaps says more about "us" than him? Of course in today's society it's wrong for a man to share a bed with children not his own, but I think the motive was as innocent as it was misguided. I don't see this ever happening again.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 15 Jun 2005, 15:31

grim_tales wrote: I'm sure kids/boys have porn in their room as well I agree it is dodgy though (looking through porn with younger kids).

Not only is it dodgy, but imagine when you were a young boy just discovering the pleasures of ....'women' ...
Would you really have felt comfortable with an adult sitting next to you, drooling over the girls as well!? GROSS!

I'm sure he'll try a comeback, but come on now... I'm sure the guy can make a few more good songs, but he'll never be mr. king of pop again. he's lost his cool, he's damaged goods, he's gone completely fruit-loopy, etc etc...

He's the king of POP for fuck's sake! pop aint music It's a melody accompanied by a clip of a half-naked chick or a smooth baby-boy...dancing and smiling into the camera with they whiter-then white teeth. Mike only has a whiter then white face! He's butt-ugly and old. Kids might check his music out and all, but unless it's the greatest song ever written, it won't be a 'success'* (with success I mean the amounts of sales he had back in his prime)

Personally, I think he should have blown his brains out 10-15 years orso ago, so people would have remembered him as a troubled artist and a legend, instead of how they'll remember him now...

it's a waste.

Heal the World sucked as well, yeah.

I liked the song where he's in the clip with naomi cambell. There are a few others I like as well but can't remember all of them...
I do like the jackson songs whenever they pop up in GTA: Vice City (2 songs I believe...)

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 15 Jun 2005, 17:24

The song you're thinking of may be Black or White (1991) Yi, not sure...

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 15 Jun 2005, 18:43

I'll reply to this thread properly later but for now I'll move this to the Debate thread (as we're discussing him and not his music).

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 15 Jun 2005, 19:00

grim_tales wrote:The song you're thinking of may be Black or White (1991) Yi, not sure...

No Black or White also sucked...

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 15 Jun 2005, 19:07

You lost me then..

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 15 Jun 2005, 20:27

Anonymous wrote:
grim_tales wrote:The song you're thinking of may be Black or White (1991) Yi, not sure...
No Black or White also sucked...

That was me btw... didnt know that a; I was logged out, and b; that it was possible to post without being logged in!?!?

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 15 Jun 2005, 20:45

No worries. Not sure what song you mean then?
I like his early hit "Ben" (you know "Ben, the two of us need look no more.." etc). Also whats this song he did (possibly a duet with Diana Ross in the 80's) -

Do you know where you're going to?
Do you like the things that life are showing you?... don't know any more

Strangely, the "Ben" in Ben is a rat.

Mordib · Post by **Mordib** » 16 Jun 2005, 08:53

I guess i have two things to say on the subject of the trial/verdict.

firstly im glad he didnt get convicted. there would have been no point in him going to jail, if he had been put in gen pop he would have been raped and/or killed, in solitary he would just lose what few marbles he had left (if he actually had any left by that point) and would probably kill himself. What he does need, and i really hoped the judge would have suggested this is that he needs major help in terms of his mental state. he should be removed by his family from the public eye and given the treatement he needs to at least live out the rest of his life vaguely normally.

second point is thatall these parents claiming he abused their children, if they really believed that then they needed to put the parents on trial too. not many parents would allow their young children to go off and play in a strangers house, and i hope no sane parent would allow their young child to sleep in the same bed as some stranger. the fact that he is famous doesnt change the fact that he is openly disturbed, i really do feel the real criminals in this case were the parents...

m.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 16 Jun 2005, 09:40

Mordib wrote:
firstly im glad he didnt get convicted. there would have been no point in him going to jail, if he had been put in gen pop he would have been raped and/or killed...

Killed? probably... raped!? hell no! I don't care how desperate and lonely you get while in prison, I doubt anyone would ever consider fucking michael jackson, let alone FORCING the guy to have sex...
He might look and sound like a skinny 60 year old white woman, but everyone knows he's still a 'dude' (unless his nose wasnt the only thing that has fallen off...)

Would YOU really wanna be known in prison as 'that guy that had sex with Whacko Jacko'!? I think NOT...

Mordib · Post by **Mordib** » 16 Jun 2005, 11:45

haven't you ever watched Oz dude, he would be prime time roasting material, they'd probably have wars over his ass!

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 16 Jun 2005, 14:07

Mordib wrote:haven't you ever watched Oz dude, he would be prime time roasting material, they'd probably have wars over his ass!

I didnt know Oz was a documentary!?

Seriously, I dont care what kind of sick fuck someone is, that 1 braincell left in their head would be screaming ' NOOOOOOOOOO YOU BASTARD NOOOOOOOOOO!!!! DON'T DO IT!!!' if they'd even consider fucking Jackson...

the68monkey · Post by **the68monkey** » 25 Jun 2005, 06:02

Michael Jackson.

End of discussion, as far as I'm concerned.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 25 Jun 2005, 07:45

the68monkey wrote:Michael Jackson.

End of discussion, as far as I'm concerned.

Gawdddd ur such a delicate flower...(!)