Thinking of buying a new PC

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 26 Dec 2007, 10:30

My mum wants a new computer to replace our old one (the one I'm using now, which is a piece of shit). We don't really want to use it for games or anything (I'm not a PC person)... not current games anyway. Mainly just MS Office etc...

This one seems a good price - one feature I thought of is does it have a DVD ROM drive

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/product/seo/191562

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 26 Dec 2007, 10:36

Hmm I think even for a basic PC, 512MB RAM seems low. But I dunno, could be mistaken. How much RAM is recommended for running Vista?

And grim, PCs having a DVD ROM drive isn't that big a deal lol. It's been standard for ages now.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 26 Dec 2007, 10:41

I'm not sure about Vista, maybe 512MB isnt much. I don't know what our budget is, and then we have to buy the software..

IronMonkey · Post by **IronMonkey** » 26 Dec 2007, 11:53

512MB is the bare minimum for Vista. Look for at least 1GB & DirectX9 acceleration. Check out HotUKDeals as people often post bargain PCs on there...

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 26 Dec 2007, 12:47

This looks good - the monitor is nit included in the price though?!

http://configure.euro.dell.com/dellstor ... lid=122756

Not sure if I'm supposed to pay for it all myself or what

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 26 Dec 2007, 22:30

How much RAM does your existing PC have? What CPU does it have? Assuming it has 512Mb of RAM and has a fairly decent CPU you may not even need a new PC at all.

When you buy a new PC you'll need to install all your extra software and data. The reason I mention this is because a format and Windows XP re-install it will make your PC at least 50% faster without costing you a penny.

Assuming you've not lost the original System Restore CD/Windows XP CD, backup your Data then put it in and follow the onscreen instructions. Choose the option to format the hard disk and reinstall Windows. It's something non-technical types never do but in fact it's an easy and free way to greatly improve your PC speed. The vast majority of the time the slowness people complain about it just a VERY clogged down system. This is fixed by a System Restore.

If this doesn't work or your hardware really is too old:

To make it future proof I'd make sure it has 2Gb of RAM. I'd also make sure it has either a 17" or 19" TFT monitor.

Do you already have a TFT monitor or the older CRT type? If you do you "maybe" to save something by buying one without a new monitor. Your old TFT will definitely work with a new PC, it should just plug straight in.

It may also be cheaper to get a PC without monitor then buy one separately. Dell.com do have some super deals with a Monitor but it's worth looking into buying a monitor separately. It will just plug straight in, monitors don't even need a driver CD!

As to the CPU I'd make sure it's an Intel Core 2 Duo or Quad Core but really it doesn't matter for basic Office and Internet stuff. I'm no expert in this area any more. You really don't need anything super special just 1Gb or 2Gb or RAM.

Certainly NOT 512Mb RAM. That is okay for XP but will never take Vista (which you may upgrade to one day).

As to a DVD-ROM. They're old hat and come as standard, it will be a DVD Writer though. No more excuses to not join in creating DVD captures

grim_tales wrote:I'm not sure about Vista, maybe 512MB isnt much. I don't know what our budget is, and then we have to buy the software..

You'll probably have to ask for XP as Vista comes as standard, as it should IMO. You don't play Games and only want basic Office, Internet stuff so Vista will be perfectly fine for you. It's really not "that" different from XP, think of it as "XP Plus". It's techie types who "mostly" come into trouble with Vista.

What version of Office do you currently run? It will work just fine on your new PC (probably). If so you may not need to buy a new version.

Have you considered a laptop?

It will plug into a full size Monitor, Keyboard, Mouse but is much more compact and can be used anywhere in the house. It's what I do now and couldn't go back to a big and bloated desktop PC now. I've plugged a full size monitor, keyboard, mouse directly into it. The power in laptops nowadays is more than enough for most people. Again it's techies or Computer Games owners who need more power, not you!

IronMonkey wrote:512MB is the bare minimum for Vista. Look for at least 1GB & DirectX9 acceleration.

Grim said he doesn't play PC Games so won't need DX9.

If I can suggest it lets keep it simple. I get the impression Grim wants a simple all round but powerful enough PC. Pretty much anything on the market will do.

But definitely get 1Gb of RAM minimum! The rest of the PC will do whatever you get, pretty much. They all tend to have decent CPU's for general usage, with 100Gb+ hard disk space.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 26 Dec 2007, 22:40

We have an older CRT type monitor and I'd guess unfortunately what we have ATM is really too old - we tried a lot of times to delete stuff we dont need (it was actually a PC used at mum's uni - where she does her job).

We may get a new PC in the new year, maybe not - I'll probably get it myself tbh (if we do).
We run Word/Excel 2000 ATM

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 26 Dec 2007, 23:22

grim_tales wrote:We have an older CRT type monitor

Forget that idea then.

grim_tales wrote:I'd guess unfortunately what we have ATM is really too old

You guess? What does that mean? It's easy to check:

* Right click on My Computer
* Choose Properties
* At the bottom left it will tell you the CPU and amount of RAM. How much is it? If it's 512Mb or near that you definitely want to try the System Restore root.

You're going to have to reinstall Office etc.... and your Data anyway.

grim_tales wrote:we tried a lot of times to delete stuff we dont need (it was actually a PC used at mum's uni - where she does her job).

There is NO comparison between deleting stuff you don't need and a System Restore. The WinXP installation itself will be VERY clogged down and chocker block.

Trust me if you can find the System Restore CD or WinXP CD it's DEFINITELY worth a try. It will make your PC DRAMATICALLY faster using the exact same hardware. You'll be AMAZED how much faster the same PC is with a fresh Windows XP install.

Don't just reinstall Windows over the top format the hard disk first. Which is easy to do it will be part of the System Restore process.

What make is it?

It's a simple fact most people who buy a new PC because the old one is slow don't need one at all. As well as new hardware in a PC, what else is new? The Windows installation of course. When was Windows last installed on to your current PC? When you first bought it I imagine, that's plenty of time to get REALLY clogged down.

grim_tales wrote:We run Word/Excel 2000 ATM

That will work just fine on a new PC. I suspect it would even work on Vista. Office 2002 and Office 2003 do.

Office 2000 is old though. If you had Office 2002 onwards I'd be more inclined to possibly keep it.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 26 Dec 2007, 23:52

348MHz, 328MB RAM

So not enough for Vista

I'll run the System Restore idea past her but I dont know if we have the original discs

Doubt it.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 27 Dec 2007, 00:00

grim_tales wrote:348MHz, 328MB RAM

So not enough for Vista

I wasn't suggesting you put Vista on your current PC. My personal recommendation would be: Existing PC stick with XP, new PC get Vista Home Premium.

Don't buy the cheaper Vista Home Basic. It cuts stacks of goodies out of it.

If you find any software doesn't work there is a "Run as Administrator" option on EVERY software shortcut on your Start Menu that fixes the majority of software that doesn't work properly. This makes it run like it does on XP, kind of. Most software and installs without any problem though. Again as you're only running Office and Internet type stuff anyway.

grim_tales wrote:I'll run the System Restore idea past her but I dont know if we have the original discs
Doubt it.

Personally I'd find the discs first. If you've lost them then it's a moot point.

If you've backed up your data then you've not lost anything by trying it but possibly hundreds of pounds if it does work. I'm always amazed how much faster my PC is when I do it. It's like I've bought a new PC but haven't. I bet Tom will back me up on this one, he's a big one for fresh installs of Windows.

You'll also find you get back stacks of disk space by formatting the hard disk, reinstalling Windows/Software and data. There is bound to be Gigabytes of crap on there you're unsure you can delete but don't actually need.

348Mb is a bit low for XP but it's not a disaster (not for basic Office/Internet stuff anyway). What CPU do you have? It says above the amount of RAM.

No offence Grim but you do remind me of Norman Bates sometimes

, not that you've killed anyone though. Do you ask your Mum permission to have a shit?

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 27 Dec 2007, 00:02

Ha ha

No

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 27 Dec 2007, 00:04

Oops I meant to say:

348MHz CPU
320MB RAM

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 27 Dec 2007, 00:36

Crikey that is slow! I'm guessing it's a Pentium 2, maybe Pentium 3.

What I said about the System Restore option is right on the money but that PC is fundamentally still flipping ancient so will probably give you a speed increase for 6 months maybe before it's dog slow again.

As the PC is so old I wouldn't bother running System Restore on it. I didn't think it would be "that" old. You run XP right? How old is the PC?

Here is what I recommend:

1. Vista Home Premium - Again if you install Vista you want Home Premium NOT Home Basic
2. 2Gb RAM - Definitely no lower than 1Gb but Vista really is happier with 2Gb (Futureproof even if you install XP at first)
3. 17" 4:3 TFT or 19" WS TFT
4. Check out the Dell.com deals. You can get some super deals at Dell. You'll notice I'm not spending much time here as frankly pretty much any modern Dell PC will do the job.
5. As to Office you have several options:

1. Is anyone in your household in education of any type? If so this fully legit link is for you:

http://www.theultimatesteal.co.uk/

Office 2007: Ultimate Edition for £38.95!

I’d recommend paying a bit extra on top to get a physical disc. It gives you Office 2007: Ultimate Edition (Word, Excel the lot). This is a completely legit and legal version, see here (this link is on the left side on the link above):

http://www.microsoft.com/uk/education/b ... offertandc

If no one in your household are students:

2. Install Office 2000 on to the new PC, it is old though but will work fine on Vista!
3. Get Office 2003 from eBay.

Make sure it has a picture and you should get a legit one, make sure the picture has the usual hologram on the CD. It is a wee bit risky buying software off eBay though. If you're in doubt post a link and we'll be able to tell you if it's likely to be legit.

If you're unsure about eBay get Office 2003 from eBuyer.com (who're a IT retailer and buy far one of the cheapest).

4. The latest version is Office 2007 but that is costly (if you're not a student). Still Office 2003 is 5 years old now. You may find it isn't "that" much more, it's worth checking.

If cost is no option (within reason) I'd get Office 2007.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 27 Dec 2007, 01:21

Have you thought about a new printer? Do you need a new printer? Does your existing Printer have a USB connection? It will need to have a USB connection to be compatible with a new PC.

What is your current printers make and model number? I'll check for you if it's Vista compatible. It's likely to be btw, Vista has built in drivers for most old Printers.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 27 Dec 2007, 09:26

Oh lord, whatever you do don't upgrade to Office 2007. The new UI is gayer than Freddy Mercury and the Village People combined.

Otherwise the rest of Brad's advice is right on the mark.

Also don't get any TFT monitors that lack DVI-D. Having a digital screen with only analogue inputs is utterly retarded.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 27 Dec 2007, 16:41

EvaUnit02 wrote:Oh lord, whatever you do don't upgrade to Office 2007. The new UI is gayer than Freddy Mercury and the Village People combined.

The alternative is to buy Office 2003 then in a few years have to buy Office 2007 anyway when it becomes more a standard. That and Office 2007 for £38 is a super bargain, assuming anyone in Grim's house is student.

If you think back to when Office 2002 came out mid-year no one was using Office 2003 but today 4 years on many are. The simple truth is given time Office 2007 will become more popular. I say learn the new interface now.

The new Office 2007 interface isn't the revolutionary layout that Microsoft say it is but I'm now more than happy using it and can find the options I need just as quick as if I was using Office 2003. It's not worse just different. It is a surprise at first but you very quickly find the options you want and are fine.

The crucial point here is it's just tabs instead of menus and toolbars. It's exactly the same otherwise to formatting a document etc... Many of the windows are identical too.

The simple truth is Office 2003 is now 5 years old and will just get older and older.

Otherwise the rest of Brad's advice is right on the mark.

Thank you

EvaUnit02 wrote:Also don't get any TFT monitors that lack DVI-D. Having a digital screen with only analogue inputs is utterly retarded.

Do many Dell deal Monitors have this? I doubt Grim's Mum would really care. This is only a "all round family" PC after all.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 27 Dec 2007, 19:30

My brother is in his last uni year but he has his own laptop. I'm studying a course at college (ECDL), biut not full time.
Our printer is fine.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 27 Dec 2007, 22:47

What make/model is the printer?

I bet one/both of you are eligible then.

That price of £38.95 for Office 2007 is amazing. It gets you the "Ultimate" Edition which is one down from the top version (Enterprise) and costs well over £200 normally. For that price, buy it and use it for 1 month (any less is giving up) and if you still cannot stand it put Office 2000 or Office 2003 on it.

The office ends in April 2008 btw!

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 28 Dec 2007, 02:37

...or just use OpenOffice. There is choice in the marketplace, thank god.

bradavon wrote:Do many Dell deal Monitors have this? I doubt Grim's Mum would really care. This is only a "all round family" PC after all.

Oh definitely not. Dell's monitors are some of the best on the market.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 28 Dec 2007, 03:24

EvaUnit02 wrote:...or just use OpenOffice. There is choice in the marketplace, thank god.

Yep, but for Grim's Mum keep it simple and stick with Microsoft. That and IMO it's best to learn what the business/rest of the world uses. They'll use Office 2007 one day but I seriously doubt they'll ever use OpenOffice.

An oddity is many consider free to mean inferior. When I worked at the police they'd pay over £100 a time for Adobe Acrobat Writer instead of paying considerably less for third party software that does the exact same thing.

EvaUnit02 wrote:Oh definitely not. Dell's monitors are some of the best on the market.

So they have DVI or not?

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 28 Dec 2007, 04:28

bradavon wrote:So they have DVI or not?

YES, quit being such a prick.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 28 Dec 2007, 15:43

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 28 Dec 2007, 16:40

Jeez I'm not. I asked if Dell monitors had DVI and you said: "Oh definitely not." Then you said: "Dell's monitors are some of the best on the market."

That's a contradiction. I guess you weren't talking about DVI in your first sentence but that isn't clear in the written form.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 30 Dec 2007, 21:23

It didn't say how fast the CPU is or how much RAM but there is an Acer PC with AMD 64 + 19" WS Monitor for £299 in Curry's at the moment.

I'd still pick on my parts at Dell myself.