Are you a vegetarian?

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 12 Apr 2006, 11:39

I'm not a vege, although I don't eat a lot of meat. My mum predominantly cooks vegetarian food at home anyway. It's usually when I'm out, I might opt for a non-veg meal.

I think I could give up meat (I would like to) but it tastes soooo good.

Would take a little will power. I can easily give up chocolate, soft drinks and sugary crap but giving up meat is a little more difficult. I love the soya meat substitutes though.

I definately cannot give up fish/seafood. My favourite foods are like sushi, lobster, prawns and stuff... Mmmm...

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 12 Apr 2006, 11:53

been vegetarian for a bout 3yrs now, it's easy! although there are some amount offoods with hidden stuff in it like, jelly (gelatin) and some colorings.

but i didnt like meat much in the first place and hated fish so it was kinda easy excpet i cant eat jelly tots anymore

, thinking about going vegan, but my parents wont let me, since i dont eat that much in the first place hehe when i get my own place then maybe i will.

but i did it for ethical issues, simply becuase i dont agree withthe way they treat most animals, neither with killing sooo yeah.

i use soya meat alot, and soya foods, i dont drink milk anymore but use soya milk and yoghurts, but its really easy to create *normal* food with soya meat, my parents are devout meateaters, but even they will eat the stuff i cook using quorn

(and my mom is like the most worst eater you can find, not upto trying much new stuff!)

the68monkey · Post by **the68monkey** » 12 Apr 2006, 12:08

I really don't enjoy red meat or pork, but I don't know that I could give up adding chicken or turkey to my diet. Maybe if I were a big fan of fish I could, but I really don't like most fish.

Once in a blue moon I'll get a craving for a cheeseburger, but when I actually start eating the thing. . . yuck.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 12 Apr 2006, 12:40

Since I was 14 so 13 years and proud to be so. We as the dominant species don't have the right just because we're more intelligent and stronger (than some) to slaughter animals.

That's just my opinion, this discussion usually results in heavy meat eaters saying Veggie's are weird and animals are here for us to eat them. Whatever! Me I think people should be allowed to choose, in my experience it's the meat eaters who have a problem with the few vegetarians/vegans than the other way around.

I've long since accepted pubs, restaurants and the like offering ONE veggie meal. This is still alarmingly common. I've even been to places that had no option. WTF???

Shen wrote:thinking about going vegan, but my parents wont let me, since i dont eat that much in the first place hehe when i get my own place then maybe i will.

That's a common gross misconception like "I'll starve if I don't eat meat. I won't get all the protein etc . . .".

The fact is a vegetarian diet is healthier, but of course you need to do it responsibly and eat the alternative food. I've no interest in becoming vegan but I'm sure you can live perfectly healthy from it.

BiscLimpkit wrote:I think I could give up meat (I would like to) but it tastes soooo good.

For me I always enjoyed meat but the underlying feeling of where it came from overrode my pallet for the taste. I dislike the smell, texture and everything about it now.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 12 Apr 2006, 12:48

If you really want to read what I think and open up some controversial issues read an article on Vegetarianism I wrote last year (it's case sensitive):

http://www.alexmccaffrey.net/Discussion ... ianism.htm

Don't just take my word for it; check out what Moby has to say (which I happen to very much agree with):

MOBY - Play - Sleeve Notes

Often when I meet someone they ask me why I'm a vegan (a vegan is someone who neither eats, wears, or uses animal products). Before I list the reasons why I've chosen to be a vegan let me say that I don't judge people who choose to eat meat. People make different choices for different reasons, and it is not my place to judge the choices that other people make. Just being alive is inevitably going to cause suffering. But anyway, here's why I'm a vegan. 1) I love animals, and I believe that a vegan diet causes less suffering than a diet centred around animal products. 2) Animals are sentient creatures with their own wills, and it seems wrong to force our will onto another creature just because we're able to. 3) A great deal of medical evidence points to the fact that a diet centred around animal products is terrible for you. Animal product based diets have been repeatedly proven to cause and exacerbate cancer, heart disease, obesity, impotence, diabetes, etc. 4) A vegan diet is materially more efficient than an animal product based diet.

By that I mean that you can feed lots more people with grain directly than by feeding that grain to a cow and then killing the cow. In a world where people are starving it seems criminal to fatten up cows with grain that could be keeping people alive. 5) The raising of farm animals is environmentally disastrous. All of the waste from animal farming gets washed into our water supply, poisoning our drinking water and fouling our lakes, streams, and oceans. 6) Vegan food is nice to look at. Compare a plate with grains and fruits and vegetables to a plate with pigs' intestines, chicken legs, and chopped up cows' muscles. So that's pretty much why I'm a vegan. If for some reason you ever decide to become a vegetarian or a vegan, please do so carefully. Most of our conventional diets are so meat and animal product based that when we give up meat we don't know what to replace it with. Although a vegetarian or vegan diet is a million times healthier than a carnivorous diet, making the transition away from eating animals needs to be done wisely. Most health food stores and bookstores have good books that can help you to make the transition from an animal product based diet to a vegetarian or vegan diet.

Moby, New York City, January 1999

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 12 Apr 2006, 13:22

I don't understand the whole non-dairy product thing.
Why not drink milk or eat butter?
Milking cows is good for them.
They need to be milked.
If no one drank milk the poor things would burst.
Brad, you're the cause of exploding cows!!

Mordib · Post by **Mordib** » 12 Apr 2006, 13:38

cows and other animals that have been domestically bred for many generations wouldnt exist if everyone was a vegetarian... thats why I like PETA so much, they're inadvertantly planning to wipe out the very animals theyre trying to save

I like bacon and steak too much to ever become a vegetarian. Still the vegetarians I do know I dont consider any different from the meat eaters I know, so good on personal choice!

the68monkey · Post by **the68monkey** » 12 Apr 2006, 13:45

Markgway wrote:Milking cows is good for them.
They need to be milked.
If no one drank milk the poor things would burst.

Glad to see the

there, Mark. If cows were allowed to have calves, then wean them naturally, their milk supply would dry up, just as a human mother's milk supply dries up when she weans her baby. If you've heard that cows need to be milked, it's because if you don't milk them, their milk supply will begin to dwindle.

I'm certainly not anti-dairy, not by any means. But it is true that the more you milk a cow, the more she will need to be milked. Normally, dairy farmers milk a cow for about a year, then allow her to dry up for a couple of months as she prepares to give birth to the next calf, then start the cycle anew.

And a bit of trivia here. Humans aren't the only creatures to use other species for their own means. Even ants are known to keep different insects and "milk" them for their sugar secretions, etc. What we tend to think of as strictly human behavior, a matter of choice, is practiced at the most basic, insect levels of the animal kingdom.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 12 Apr 2006, 14:11

Point is drinking milk doesn't hurt the cows so what's the problem?

I can understand not eating dead meat but the dairy product thing is a bunch of bullshit.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 12 Apr 2006, 16:35

I eat meat, but I do detest the whole animal slaughter thing and the cruel lway of life for most the animals

but thats why I try (hard) to put it out of my mind.

I may be silly in saying I hate it, and still eat these animals, but thats life I guess and we cannot save everyone and everything.

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 12 Apr 2006, 17:38

i just dont drink milk becuase it gives me stomach ache...

@Brad, thats why my parents dont wish me to become vegan, they werent to happy about the choice to stop eating meat either, thinking i couldnt live healthily on a non meat diet, they finally realized this is not so, but still bug me abot "you dont get enough protein why dont you eat fish" but if i even mention vegan it' "not while you live under my roof" but you can live healthily on this, i thought about vegan since animals are not only killed cruelly but are kepy bruelly for the production of eggs milk etc.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 12 Apr 2006, 19:19

An informed parent is a worrying thing. They like most people should get their facts straight before assuming just because you don't eat meat you'll not be able to get protein etc . . . from elsewhere.

Plenty of other foods have as much protein in them, you just need to look.

I'm lucky my parents are open minded and let me choose from a young age. Not once did my parents try to stop me being vegetarian. My Mum was happy to adapt her cooking habits for me (as all parents should).

Markgway wrote:I don't understand the whole non-dairy product thing. Why not drink milk or eat butter? Milking cows is good for them.

I'm not saying I fully understand it I'm not vegan but it's clear to me sticking fake babies mouths (or whatever they're called) to cows in a cattle market for hours on end and after/before force feeding them to beef them up is not:

A: Natural
B: Nice

Mordib wrote:cows and other animals that have been domestically bred for many generations wouldnt exist if everyone was a vegetarian..

I'm surprised you said that Mordib as that's clearly utter bollocks. Nature is very good at self sustaining itself.

Breading animals in the way we do now is relative new. Cattle have been around for centuries they'd cope very well without human intervention.

Markgway wrote:Point is drinking milk doesn't hurt the cows so what's the problem?

I doubt they particularly like it.

Besides it's not the end product that is at fault it's the process that it happens to create it.

romerojpg wrote:I may be silly in saying I hate it, and still eat these animals, but thats life I guess and we cannot save everyone and everything.

No that's a very fair point. Humans will cause some level of suffering by simply existing and we are hypocritical by nature.

This is wrong but that doesn't etc . . . etc . . .

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 12 Apr 2006, 19:21

I guess at least I dont hurt the animals and thats something I guess. Imagine working in one of thoese places where the poor animals suffer

I would rather be jobless.

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 12 Apr 2006, 19:22

wpuld people drink milk if they openly knew it not only contained the antibiotics given to cows to make them produce milk faster but also their feces, pus, blood and other such nice things...thats enough to make me want to puke without the fact milk doesthat to me already...

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 12 Apr 2006, 22:45

Surely it's sterilised first?!

the68monkey · Post by **the68monkey** » 12 Apr 2006, 23:37

pasteurized and homogenized

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 12 Apr 2006, 23:40

Yeah, Shen. They don't just stick a carton up a cows arse and package it.

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 13 Apr 2006, 10:45

lol sure its *steralized* but that sure as hell doesnt get rid of it all, theres still something liek a safe limit of 750,000 pus cells per cubic cm...yummy...

WATER FAT CASEIN OTHER PROTEIN
87% 3.25% 4% 1% 4.75

(note: that is 3.25% "milkfat" which includes the 87% water.)

80% of the protein in milk is casein. Casein is a powerful binder... a
polymer used to make plastics... and a glue that is better used to make
sturdy furniture or hold beer bottle labels in place. It is in
thousands of processed foods as a binder... as "something" caseinate.

Casein is a powerful allergen... a histamine that creates lots of
mucus. The only medicine in Olympic athlete Flo-Jo's body was Benedryl,
a power antihistamine she took to combat her last meal... pizza.
For the whole Flo-Jo story:

http://www.notmilk.com/deb/092198.html,
http://www.notmilk.com/deb/111598.html and
http://www.notmilk.com/deb/112398.html for the whole story.

BACTERIA

Cow's milk is allowed to have feces in it. This is a major source for bacteria. Milk is typically pasteurized more than once before it gets to your table... each time for only 15 seconds at 162 degrees Fahrenheit.

To sanitize water one is told to boil it (212 degrees F) for several minutes. That is a tremendous disparity, isn't it!

Keep in mind that at room temperature the number of bacteria in milk DOUBLE around every 20 minutes. No wonder milk turns rotten very quickly.

PUS

ONE cubic centimeter (cc) of commercial cow's milk is allowed to have up to 750,000 somatic cells (common name is "PUS") and 20,000 live bacteria... before it is kept off the market.

That amounts to a whopping 20 million live squiggly bacteria and up to 750 MILLION pus cells per liter (bit more than a quart).

1 cup = 236.5882cc 177,441,150 pus cells ~ 4,731,600 bacteria
24 oz (3 glasses) = 532,323,450 pus cells ~ 14,220,000 bacteria
(the "recommended" daily intake)

The EU and the Canadians allow for a less "tasty" 400,000,000 pus cells per liter.

Typically these levels are lower... but they COULD reach these levels and still get to YOUR table.

http://www.rense.com/general26/milk.htm

still yummy i guess...

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 13 Apr 2006, 11:39

Thanks for the interesting links Brad, Shen... good reads. I take it you are the only two veges on B&B? (Unless others have yet to voice their opinion).

I wonder if our resident animal pet detective (Tom) is a vege or not...

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 13 Apr 2006, 12:48

Good question Tom?

I wrote it about a year ago, it's all just my opinion of course. I don't pretend to be an expert I know what I know.

I like the Moby transcript as it's articulate, well thought out, knowledgeable, unbiased and another person's opinion.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 13 Apr 2006, 12:55

Well... I consider myself a vegan because I don't eat any meat or fish... but I have to admit I do like a good burger from time to time (once every year or so).

I don't eat animals in general.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 13 Apr 2006, 13:00

I drink milk and I eat meat, and occasionally fish. Yeah I love animals. ALOT. But I grew up on these things and I doubt I could ever go without them.
They should make something that tastes even better then meat and chicken and (maybe) fish... MAYBE then people would stop eating it... but I doubt it. We, as humankind, have been used to eating meat for so damn long now, I guess it's in most of our systems....

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 13 Apr 2006, 14:22

I try my hardest not to wear leather or the like. I did buy a leather belt while in Australia but I had little choice as my belt broke. I own a pair of suede trainers but otherwise ALL my work shoes have been for the past 5+ years from:

http://www.vegetarian-shoes.co.uk/

My belts too. I don't ask if cheese when bought in a cafe/restaurant is renet free as that's very impractical but I buy veggie safe cheese.

Tom2681 wrote:Well... I consider myself a vegan because I don't eat any meat or fish... but I have to admit I do like a good burger from time to time (once every year or so).

That IS a vegetarian silly but it's a lie to then go and eat a burger. Now isn't it! You don't eat meat or fish often but don't call yourself a vegetarian, or vegan for that matter.

To quote Moby:

"A vegan is someone who neither eats, wears, or uses animal products"

Yi-Long wrote:We, as humankind, have been used to eating meat for so damn long now, I guess it's in most of our systems....

Yep very true.

If it was a case of dying or eating meat (say plane crash)I would but as we don't need meat to surive and it's plain wrong IMO I don't.

That said I'd "probably" eat a dead human if it meant dying otherwise. I'd make sure I crashed over Germany first

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 13 Apr 2006, 14:27

"I'm a post-modern vegetarian. I eat meat ironically"
- Bill Bailey

Sorry but that did make me laugh

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 13 Apr 2006, 14:37

A vegan is someone who neither eats, wears, or uses animal products

Damn, then I'm a vegetarian.

it's a lie to then go and eat a burger.

Can't I just be a vegetarian on 364 days per year ?

Does eating one lousy burger make me a bad guy ?

Hell, last time I ate a burger was back in early 2004.