Need a new pc: help please :)

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 04 Sep 2007, 13:40

Ok... my PC has broken down again. It's getting fixed within a few weeks (power-supply broke down) so I'm on an old computer now. But even when it's made I will probably go out and get a new PC.

I am thinking of spending about 1000 euro on a new one, including a monitor which will probably be a 22 inch TFT screen which will cost about 300 euro... so I'll have 700 euro to spend on a new PC (give or take a few hundred)

So what should I get?

AMD or Intel?
Duo-core or Quad-core?
DDR2 or DDR3?
What kind of graphics-card?

What do I have to look out for (bad batches or cards or whatever), etc etc etc.

Hope some of you guys can help me out a bit. I dont really keep up all that much with the zillions of graphic cards coming out every month, or about the pros and cons about new motherboards and processors etc...

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 04 Sep 2007, 14:09

-Get a Core 2, the best CPU on the market. AMDs are long in tooth now.

-The best motherboard is one with an Intel P35 chipset. Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3 is one of the best. Alternatively you could get a GA-P35-S3, same board, except it's cheaper due to using electrolytic capacitors. The DS3 uses solid-state capacitors, which supposed increase the mobo's lifespan dramatically.

-DDR2, really cheap now. 2GB DDR2-800MHz (aka PC2-6400).
-Graphics card = Nvidia Geforce 8800GTS 320MB, but it'd be well worth investing in the model with 640MB VRAM if you're looking at running the latest games at 1680*1050.

Dual core or Quad core? If you have the cash, get a Q6600 (Core 2 Quad 2.4GHz), which is the practically the same price as E6850 (Core 2 Duo 3.0GHz).

Up until fairly recently, barely any games took advantage of dual core processing. The Quad core utilising games are very near on the horizon though, like Alan Wake (latest from the makers of Max Payne).

If you're looking for a PC on the long term, definately get a Quad core.

Power supplies (PSU):- Definitely get a known reliable brand PSU. Generic ones are dangerous, potentially causing system instability and in the worst case scenario your expensive components being fried. You'll one with 12+V dual rails, delivering 20A minimum. Nothing less than 500W cuts the mustard these days.

Reliable PSU brands:- Silverstone, Enermax, Corsair, Zalman. (Silverstone being the best bang for buck.)

Case:- Ventilation is VERY important. Get one with a minimum of 1* intake fan and 1*exhaust fan.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 04 Sep 2007, 14:21

Monitors:-

This is complex one. ALL 22" monitors have 6bit TN panels. TN panels have limited viewing angles, inferior black levels (and thus shadow details), less colours than an 8bit monitor. Not recommended if you do extensive photo editing/design work. The advantage to TN panels is that they've fast response times and they're the most affordable, thus they're a primary choice for gamers.

Samsung make the best gaming screens, 2ms response times.

If you're looking for an 8bit panel, then get a Dell Ultrasharp 20" or 24". Dell make some of the best LCD monitors around.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 04 Sep 2007, 16:25

Wow... thanks Eva!

How the hell do you know so much about PC's?

Man, I go through all those lists of which to choose from... and it just gives me a fucking headache...

I dont need the pc for gaming btw. Occasionally I'd like to play Sim City 4 (although that has problems on dual-core and/or quad-cores I believe..., but I mainly use it for graphic/3d programs, and watching Tv-series/anime.

Also, I'd like to connect my 360 and/or PS3 to my pc once I have those...

Right now, I'm looking at the stuff you recommend but I think that would be much more expensive than what I'm looking at. I do want AT LEAST 2 GB memory, but apart from that it's all still a bit vague. I'll keep doing some research tonight and see what the possibilities are.

Also, are there any price-drops on the near horizon? I know LCD screens are dropping in price the coming months, but what about the other hardware?
And what would be a very good budget graphics-card (like 100-150 bucks or something)!?

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 04 Sep 2007, 17:49

The Q6600 is definitely the one to get, multiple cores are becoming more and more useful and 4 > 1. You can OC the E6850 more and get more raw power but IMO the Q6600 is a better buy.

PSU wise I've always used SeaSonic because they're so quiet and efficient without excessive pricing. But where I've been really pressed for cash Antec do nicely. Corsair rebrand SeaSonic PSU's and they are very well regarded so consider the HX520 which I own two of or the VX450 which will have plenty of juice for you. On the Antec side of things there's the EarthWatts or NeoPower HE, the NeoPower HE is more expensive but also a little quieter. With both of these the 430 models would probably be suitable. Few people understand actual power requirements and all the PSU's I've mentioned are highly efficient so high wattages mean even less.

If you get an Antec case (I always use them) then some even come with a decent PSU. I have a P150 which came with a 430w NeoPower HE for a good price.

I wouldn't spend too much on a GPU because even the 8800's aren't that great for forthcoming titles and they don't even have the nice (but often broken) GPU offloading of AVC and VC-1. The 8800GTS 320MB's are well priced and I'd probably get one in your place. But bear in mind that it won't last too long and you'll probably want the next nVidia card if you like gaming.

Spend well on a monitor it's the most important component. I've been using 24-27" Dells for the past few years thansk to fat discounts so I really don't know about what's on the market but spend as much as you can and get a common resolution.

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 04 Sep 2007, 18:11

I left this topic while I went away ordering a new laptop so I didn't see your post before replying.

I'd still try and swing a Q6600 if you can, it's such a low price and will handle you needs for a long time to come. If you get a cheaper 2 core one you'll pay a little less but you get loads less for your money. A more basic motherboard to go with it will shave off more monies.
Graphics card wise look on for secondhand market for a 7900GT or 7900GTX, they are so cheap now because of the 8800's and an excellent buy. €80-150 for a 256MB 7900GT up to a 512MB 7900GTX I'd say.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 04 Sep 2007, 18:33

Have you considered a laptop?

Assuming you don't need it for gaming. I'm pleased I went for one, for me it's much more practical and handy being able to take it to places. I hear all/most new Toshiba models from Q4 2007 will come with HD-DVD as standard too.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 04 Sep 2007, 20:58

Lourdes wrote: I wouldn't spend too much on a GPU because even the 8800's aren't that great for forthcoming titles and they don't even have the nice (but often broken) GPU offloading of AVC and VC-1. The 8800GTS 320MB's are well priced and I'd probably get one in your place. But bear in mind that it won't last too long and you'll probably want the next nVidia card if you like gaming.

That's why I'm waiting for a Nvidia series 9 myself. I've theorised that the first gen DX10 cards won't cut the mustard when the REAL DX10 games start coming out (all the current ones are Xbox 360 ports and patched DX9 games). Bare in mind that the 8800GTS is reportedly superb with DX9 games, possibly the best out there.

Have you considered a laptop?

Don't bother, they're overpriced and underpowered junk. Their only advantage is that they're portable.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 05 Sep 2007, 15:13

If you need it to be portable that's a pretty big advantage.

I definitely agree they're overpriced though, a rip off really but what can you do if you want a laptop. I don't miss a desktop PC, no way.

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 05 Sep 2007, 20:46

My current fancy laptop is a 17" MacBook Pro, you can't get much better than that but it will never replace a desktop. Whenever I need to use it at home I boot from an eSATA drive, connect it to a real monitor and use a USB keyboard and mouse. Laptops are slow, uncomfortable and unhealthy to use, expensive and were there such a word as unupgradeable they would also be that. And any that claim to be 'desktop replacements' just aren't portable enough. For that reason I have a couple of smaller ones too.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 05 Sep 2007, 21:01

I've seen 17" laptop PC's they're stupidly big. They cease being portables when they get that big. Games aside laptops shouldn't be slow though, how much power do you need for the average PC work? Not much.

Agreed they're hard to upgrade but for most they don't really need to be, well not much. You can upgrade the RAM and hard disk which is enough for most. The days of actually needing to upgrade once a year are long gone.

Hell a Pentium 4 with 2Gb of RAM will happily run Vista (for example). It's a myth the vast majority of users need a Core 2 Duo. What do you do on your computer most of the time? E-Mail, Internet, word processing not exactly high spec. stuff.

I'd say a laptop is a desktop replacement easily, again for most users. I use my laptop most of the time as if it was a desktop. I too plug my laptop into a real monitor, keyboard and mouse as agreed for a long period laptops become unformatable.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 05 Sep 2007, 21:43

bradavon wrote:I've seen 17" laptop PC's they're stupidly big. They cease being portables when they get that big.

Oh bollock, I have access to a 17" Macbook Pro and that's very portable.

Oh and desktops not being portable? Someone has never heard of shuttle PCs.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 05 Sep 2007, 22:29

Now you're being pedantic, a bloody tower PC is portable using your argument but that's not exactly what people mean when they say portable now is it. Same goes for a 17" laptop if I want to be pedantic I'd say of course it's portable but that isn't what I mean.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 05 Sep 2007, 23:00

Thanks guys and girls,

bradavon wrote:Have you considered a laptop?

Nope. I barely leave the house EVER. And when I do, I dont wanna drag stuff with me. I still dont understand why women feel the need to carry whole bags with them. Plus I'm not THAT addicted to the internet or 'computering' in general that I'll have to use one every second I can sit down.

Plus I feel they're too expensive and not powerfull enough, and if one of the parts breaks, you're screwed.

I just want a nice powerfull yet affordable PC for at home. Think of me of a old bearded guy in a cave somewhere, away from the outside world.

Ofcourse, that mental image would be totally wrong. As you by now all well know, I'm really a 19 year old hot asian bikini-model who has a sidejob as a webcam 'dancer'. But still, the solitary 'loner' (or 'loser', depending on who you'd ask...) part is what matters.

So no laptop for me. And I didnt even mention that laptops kill your sperm. So there.

Limited viewing panels for my desktop monitor doesnt bother me much, if at all. I'm not some pathetic coward who would just glance at it from the side!. I'll be staring at that puppy straight on till my eyes are glowing red and I'm crying blood...

Anyway...
I saw a system which is the an Acer Aspire (good? bad? made by communists?)

- It's an INTEL Core 2 Quad Q6600 (to me that just sounds like the main evil database for some villain in the Transformers movie, but that's both good, right?)

- 2 GB DDR2

- 256 Nvidia 8600GT + DVi (?) DirectX10 graphics card. No idea if it's a good card.

- 500 GB HD

It's a thousand bucks (euros) and doesnt come with a monitor.

or what about this one...
http://www.mycom.nl/Products/View/MyCom ... aspx#Specs

...which is 250 bucks cheaper, but I have my doubts about the graphics card, and the Windows Vista is Dutch only (I'd prefer English)

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 05 Sep 2007, 23:13

Some women's handbags are insanely impracticable and have stuff in them they've not actually used for months, it's funny to see though at times

. Still they do come in handy when you run out of pocket space

I was lucky with my Toshiba extended warranty. It was only £70 for 3 extra years. Normally I wouldn't touch extended warranty at all but as you say they're hard to fix yourself and the warranty was a reasonable price.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 05 Sep 2007, 23:32

bradavon wrote:Some women's handbags are insanely impracticable and have stuff in them they've not actually used for months, it's funny to see though at times . Still they do come in handy when you run out of pocket space

I hate women's handbags. Shoulderbags I can still understand. They're bigger and you wear them over the shoulders. But those small handbags with the little handles... why even bother carrying that with you!? And obviously, if you have a girlfriend, she insists on taking one with her, and after 10 minutes, you're the one carrying/holding it, if you're not carefull. Looking and feeling like a complete and utter tool ofcourse.

I was lucky with my Toshiba extended warranty. It was only £70 for 3 extra years. Normally I wouldn't touch extended warranty at all but as you say they're hard to fix yourself and the warranty was a reasonable price.

The computer that now broke down (I'm now on my older computer, which is useless for pretty much anything except Inet), also came witha 3 year warranty... which was free... and I needed it ALOT.

First of all, the PC arrived without a powercord. I had an old one I used, but still: how dumb is that(!)

Then... the soundcard didnt work, as it was in conflict with the motherboard... they replaced the motherboard. Still didnt get it to work. They wanted to take my pc with them into repairs, but I told them 'fuck that idea: I need it for school!'... and then managed to get it to work myself (fucking around with the drivers)

Then I think my graphicscard burned through 3 times orso... so the 3rd time they replaced it with a different kind of graphics card...

1 or 2 of the USB ports dont work. Instead of calling the servicecenter for it, I just bought a 4-in-1 USB thingy, and attached that to my PC.

The 3.5 diskdrive doesnt work. Dont need it. The memorycards slots dont seem to work. Use the USB port for directly connecting my camera to my pc.

I think that's it.

Lesson: Dont buy a fucking Olidata PC.

That 3 year warranty that came with it: I bet they lost a lot of money on that. And I'm glad. I hope they go out of business, cause if you make and sell such a bad product, you deserve to go out of business.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 06 Sep 2007, 00:25

Yi-Long wrote: I saw a system which is the an Acer Aspire (good? bad? made by communists?)

Getting a desktop from a major vendor is a waste of money, select the parts and get it built for you by a recommended (by a number of people) computer e-store/shop with good after-sales service (lt saves you a lot of dosh and get you'll get better bang for buck parts).

RE: NV8600GT. Nah, it's pretty lacklustre. Both ATI's and Nvidia's budget cards (8600's and 2600's respectively) this generation are under-performers. You're better off with high-end DX9 cards, like the NV7900GS and ATI x1950 Pro.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 06 Sep 2007, 00:51

EvaUnit02 wrote:
Yi-Long wrote: I saw a system which is the an Acer Aspire (good? bad? made by communists?)
Getting a desktop from a major vendor is a waste of money, select the parts and get it built for you by a recommended (by a number of people) computer e-store/shop with good after-sales service (lt saves you a lot of dosh and get you'll get better bang for buck parts).

RE: NV8600GT. Nah, it's pretty lacklustre. Both ATI's and Nvidia's budget cards (8600's and 2600's respectively) this generation are under-performers. You're better off with high-end DX9 cards, like the NV7900GS and ATI x1950 Pro.

The problem is that many small PC shops have closed down because of the competition from the bigger shops. Or maybe they've moved their business to internet-only... so you order online and they'll make it. I'll ask about that on a dutch forum.

Maybe, if they fix the Olidata (hopefully next week), I can just take it around to one of the remaining little shops and see if they can just replace the motherboard and processor and graphics card... cause the DVD drives/writers and the casing etc are still fine. So I could possibly save money that way. That way I can also just keep my Windows XP, which I prefer over Vista cause that seems to still be 'shakey'.

Thanks for the graphic cards info. I mean, there are just so much. In the old days, you just bought a nice 3dFX voodoo card which came with Pandemonium and some 3d shooter... and you know you could play games for 2-3 years.

Now, I look at a list and there are like a zillion different cards from different brands and they are all the same yet only slightly different in specs and features and numbers etc etc. Those fucking dickheads should just make 1 standard and keep it that way. Make it easy for idiots like me.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 06 Sep 2007, 01:10

Yi-Long wrote: That way I can also just keep my Windows XP, which I prefer over Vista cause that seems to still be 'shakey'.

Oh great, thanks. Now that you've opening that can of worms, Brad will preach about the virtues of Vista.

Thanks for the graphic cards info. I mean, there are just so much. In the old days, you just bought a nice 3dFX voodoo card which came with Pandemonium and some 3d shooter... and you know you could play games for 2-3 years.

I disagree completely. Monopolies are bad, having competition is good. Competition = motivation for innovation and competitive pricing. Choice is good, eg they've got "silently cooled" models that use heatpipes, ideal for HTPCs. You wouldn't want a noisy air-cooling solution in a HTPC set up in the corner of the lounge or whatever.

Now, I look at a list and there are like a zillion different cards from different brands and they are all the same yet only slightly different in specs and features and numbers etc etc. Those fucking dickheads should just make 1 standard and keep it that way. Make it easy for idiots like me.

Dude, they ARE ALL THE SAME. They all use the respective same ATI and Nvidia reference boards. Again, competition is good. If you're confused then just ask. Make a thread in a forum, like you've done here.

Choosing a graphics card is easy (once you've settled on a make and model), you should consider these four things in this order:- price, warranty, whether it's factory overclocked or not and bundled software.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 06 Sep 2007, 02:19

Yi-Long wrote:I hate women's handbags. Shoulderbags I can still understand. They're bigger and you wear them over the shoulders. But those small handbags with the little handles... why even bother carrying that with you!? And obviously, if you have a girlfriend, she insists on taking one with her, and after 10 minutes, you're the one carrying/holding it, if you're not carefull. Looking and feeling like a complete and utter tool ofcourse.

True