Family dog kills one-year-old boy

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 29 Dec 2007, 18:41

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west ... 163696.stm

I bet yet again the owner and parents won't get sent to jail for murder. You'd have to know there is a chance such a dog could attack and therefore by leaving it near kids you're essentially committing murder, at the very least manslaughter.

What idiot would keep such a dog with even the slightest possibility of it killing someone. It's a joke!

It's one of those things that happens so regularly it's sadly becoming normal. No doubt all the owner/parents will get is a slap on the wrist and possibly a fine, maybe a ban from owning dogs. Great!

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 29 Dec 2007, 19:00

Grim already mentioned this elsewhere.... jeez Brad don't you know how to search???

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 29 Dec 2007, 19:07

Where? I cannot see anything in "Anything Goes" or "Debate".

What keyword do you recommend I search by exactly? Rambo is pretty distinctive, Dog is not

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 29 Dec 2007, 19:30

I was joking...... but seriously Grim did mention it somewhere...

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 29 Dec 2007, 20:41

I was being serious when I asked where?

That part was serious

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 29 Dec 2007, 20:53

I mentioned it in the Off Topic thread.
It's sad

They allowed the baby to stroke the rotweiller (!), something like that anyway. The auntie hit/restrained the dog but it didnt let go of the baby

As I said the dog wasnt the only pet in the home, there was a cat as well. Not that that makes it better but what provoked it to attack? Its not illegal to have that sort of dog as a pet.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 29 Dec 2007, 22:11

grim_tales wrote:I mentioned it in the Off Topic thread.

I thought that would be it. It doesn't count

grim_tales wrote:Not that that makes it better but what provoked it to attack?

Probably not much. Some breeds of dogs can snap at the slightest thing.

The point is it's a known violent breed (illegal or not) yet they owned it anyway with young children in the house. Someone should be sent to jail, even if for short time. It will make an example of it.

the68monkey · Post by **the68monkey** » 30 Dec 2007, 01:27

Yeah, but all those Alexandra Day books from several years ago didn't help, either:

They usually started with the same opener of "We're going out, Carl. Take good care of the baby."

What happened is truly horrific, but from reading the linked article, it wasn't the parent who owned the dog. Mom had left the baby with grandparents, and while the 16-year-old aunt was upstairs, not paying attention to the baby, the young 7-year-old took the baby outside to see the dog. I feel really bad for the little 7-year-old girl who didn't realize she was putting the baby in danger by taking him outdoors to see the dog. The 16-year-old sitter should have been paying closer attention, but she wasn't in the room. Personally, I don't think any jail term is warranted here. This family will be torn apart emotionally for years to come.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 30 Dec 2007, 01:42

It does say the dog was kept in a family enclosure.

This family will be torn apart emotionally for years to come.

Maybe not but there have been several cases of this in the UK and every time it's because adults are keeping dangerous animals near kids. Rottweiler's are dangerous dogs even if they're not illegal breeds.

The last attack involved a Pitbull which are illegal. The owner just got a ban and a fine I think. I'm not honestly sure what the best action would be, maybe not prison but it was incredibly short sighted to leave to such a dog in the same house as a child. Keeping the dog separate isn't enough.

the68monkey · Post by **the68monkey** » 30 Dec 2007, 02:08

Yeah, but this wasn't an illegal dog. ANY animal, be it poodle or pit bull, can act unexpectedly when its alpha person isn't around to keep it in line. The problem here is that the 7-year-old took the baby out the door into the back yard to pet the dog. The dog's owner/master wasn't present, and no responsible adult was in the room to stop the 7-year-old. Unfortunately, that's going to be guilt the 16-year-old aunt will likely live with forever (if she's even half human). Personally, I never would have considered leaving my kids in the care of a 16-year-old before they were at least 4 or 5. (Actually, I don't think I've ever had a babysitter younger than 20, now that I think about it.)

But back to the debate. . .
Do you really think that grandparents, aunts, uncles, and any associates of people with young children should be banned from keeping dogs? Seems a bit silly, doesn't it?

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 30 Dec 2007, 02:34

the68monkey wrote:Yeah, but this wasn't an illegal dog. ANY animal, be it poodle or pit bull, can act unexpectedly when its alpha person isn't around to keep it in line.

True but a Poodle or Caviller King Charles wouldn't badly attacked anyone. It just wouldn't happen. If it got scarred suddenly it's more likely to run away and cower in the corner.

the68monkey wrote:Personally, I never would have considered leaving my kids in the care of a 16-year-old before they were at least 4 or 5.

I doubt I would either.

I've just heard on the news there is now talk of banning Rottweiler like Pitbulls. Not that it would change much when people still own Pitbulls over here. There was a documentary that illustrated how easy it is to bring them in from other parts of Europe by labelling them as a breed which looks very similar.

I doubt it will happen though, Rottweiler's are just to popular in the UK. My grandparents had one overweight and old one when we were kids.

the68monkey wrote:But back to the debate. . .
Do you really think that grandparents, aunts, uncles, and any associates of people with young children should be banned from keeping dogs? Seems a bit silly, doesn't it?

Banned from keeping violent dogs, maybe? It would be an impossible and impracticable law to manage though.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 30 Dec 2007, 12:56

All dogs are unpredictable in my experience.

My mother was disfigured by a german sheperd 5 years ago.
She was trying to kiss the dog on his nose, and the dog must have thought she was attacking him.

The dog in question had never attacked / bitten anyone in his life.
It's fine to leave children and babies in the company of big dogs IMO. Just make sure there's an adult less than 5 metres away, just in case.

I spent my entire childhood riding on the back of an irish setter and never had any problems.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 30 Dec 2007, 13:01

When you've got young children (ie. under 8 yrs) it's safer not to have big dogs in the house.

Mostly they won't attack... but you can never be sure.

It depends on what's more important to you: guaranteeing your child's safety or keeping a pet?

When they're old enough then they can keep a pet dog.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 30 Dec 2007, 14:16

Keep children away from dogs, its not hard.

Just becuase they look cute to someone means nothing, dogs are killers, all dogs.

People with massive death dealing guard dogs are just stupid people, if you have a dog bigger than you there is no way you wil ever control it if it goes a bit crazy.

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 30 Dec 2007, 14:24

We have a cute 10 month old Staff who is the dumbest,softest dog i've ever seen. but he's hyperactive and very strong and i wouldn't leave a young child with him because you just never know do you?

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 30 Dec 2007, 14:31

Thats the thing some people just do not see danger, they look cute, they have to be cute all the time.

We have minature whippets, tiny little dogs, but no way I would ever leave them with any child ever. I just cannot imagine having a gigantic beast of a dog and having children around it! I never blame the dog, its the owners 100% for being dumb.

If a fully grown man cannot fight off one of the bigger dogs, how on earth do they expect a child to be thought of by a dog.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 30 Dec 2007, 18:58

Poodles or a Caviller King Charles' are killers? Please. Lets at least make a distinction (like some already are) between Small and Large dogs.

There's is no way a Poodle or Caviller King Charles would kill anyone, snap yes but kill it just wouldn't happen. All dogs have the same basic instinct but that's very different from all acting upon it.

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 01 Jan 2008, 23:33

i hate jack russels more than a big dog, nasty vicious little bastards. i was bitten at 7yo, it nearly took my finger off (literally) the neighbours have one next door noisy evil little thing, a few months ago i narrowly avoided having my arm mauled by the little hitler when it broke through the fence. My brother and my sister both have big dogs, alsations , they can be nasty to strangers but to my 2yo niece al lare as soft as hell, no matter what she does to them, she's even bitten them before and they let her. of course we wouldnt leave her alone with them, but just becuae one is a big dog doesnt make it any less violent or dangerous. a Jack russel at a 2yo...it wouldnt be any less dangerous than a Rotweiler with a 2yo, infact its more easily provoked. I've been around many many rotweilers all i've known have been protective sure, but soft as shit when you get to know them. I'm not excusing the family, and obviously the 16yo was nowhere near responsible enough to have been left alone with 2 kids, but as bobbi says that is something she will have to live with for the rest of her life, as will the poor 7yo.