HTPCs & Windows Media Center

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 06 Jan 2008, 05:47

There is one killer feature a Vista Media Centre particularly interests me with and that is BD Multiregion:

* How much did this VMC cost you in total? (Including Vista x64)
* Is it silent?
* Is it the shape of a standalone player?
* How long does it take from completely off to a HD Discs first on-screen display? They say 30-40 seconds for most HD Players, can a VMC beat this?
* I presume you use AnyDVD to bypass BD regional coding?
* What software do you use to playback HD-DVD and BD? I was thinking I'd load it at startup.
* I presume you can you get PCI-E cards which have HDMI 1.3 and support 1080p?
* How do you go about outputting HDMI from the graphics card but also output audio too, so it can be piped through an Amp?
* Do they support PCM, TrueHD and DTS-HD HR + MA?

I've no interest in it for anything other than fluent and region free HD Playback but the internet onboard too is a bonus.

Thanks.

IronMonkey · Post by **IronMonkey** » 07 Jan 2008, 12:35

In total its cost me about £750 but thats because I've built it into a SFF Shuttle XPC. You can build one cheaper than that if you put it in a bigger case with a standard motherboard.

Yeah, mine's about as silent as you can make a PC; very very whisper quiet. Much better than my XBox 360 console! I'd never use that for playing HD DVDs. I can barely hear the fans on my HTPC. Of course it does depend on the components you put into the PC. I use Zalman fans because, well, they're excellent for being silent & shifting lots of air.

Mine is not the shape of a standalone player as its a Shuttle (only thing I could fit into my room). You can however, buy cases made in the shape of a standalone player. I'll upload some pictures of my setup when I get home tonight.

From completely off VMC can't beat 30-40 seconds because it obviously has to load Windows first, BUT I leave my VMC in sleep mode (basically off, no fans, with VMC left in memory, so that the Freeview tuners can turn the machine on to do timer recordings). When left in sleep mode (which it automatically goes into after a timer recording has finished) it literally takes about 5 seconds to come onscreen & from putting a BD into the drive, about 10 seconds to read & display the disc on screen.

Yeah I'm using AnyDVD HD butI've not got any BDs from other regions yet. The Rock will probably be my first...

I use PowerDVD Ultra to play HD discs. It can integrate into VMC but only with a special plug-in which I haven't managed to track down yet, so I just load the player at start-up like you say.

I'm not too sure about PCI-E cards with HDMI 1.3, but yes they do support 1080p. I'm not bothered about HDMI 1.3 so I haven't really looked into that. I use the analog 5.1 channel output from my HTPC to my amplifier. It doesn't have HDMI 1.3 so that doesn't have any bearing on me.

As for outputting video & audio, you can get graphics cards that output sound as well as image via the DVI socket which connects to a special HDMI adapter that allows passthrough of the audio signal. I'm using HDMI to the TV & analog six channel to the amplifier.

The software is what decides what formats can be supported, and obviously as this is easily updated it is much better for keeping current with HD sound formats. PowerDVD Ultra can decode the HD audio formats BUT at the moment it does downsample them due to there not being a protected path for the audio from the optical drive, through the motherboard, to the audio card. This is annoying but I'm sure it will be remedied in future, & to be honest, the sound I'm getting from my Spider-Man BDs is excellent even though it is downsampled...

Any more questions, let me know. Perhaps we should start a dedicated HTPC thread?

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 08 Jan 2008, 00:15

Thanks IM.

You also need to leave it semi-on to update the Freeview EPG, unless it's automatically brought down when you try to access it? Ordinally I wouldn't want to leave a PC on (waste of power) but it's no different from leaving any kind of Freeview Recorder on.

How long from cold out of interest?

I'm not a fan of VMC/WMC for playing movies. It's great for playing audio and pictures but clunky for video. I'd use PowerDVD direct too.

As for outputting video & audio, you can get graphics cards that output sound as well as image via the DVI socket which connects to a special HDMI adapter that allows passthrough of the audio signal. I'm using HDMI to the TV & analog six channel to the amplifier.

That sounds sweet.

Analogue outputs will give you Lossless or at least it could if it was allowed. It's a pity even PCM gets downsampled. They definitely need to get this one sorted!

p.s - Thread created.

IronMonkey · Post by **IronMonkey** » 08 Jan 2008, 17:51

You don't have to leave it on for the EPG update, as you can set VMC to automatically look for a new version when you run it, so thats not a biggie.

I wouldn't ordinarily leave a PC on either but this one literally just sits there with everything in memory in a very low power state - there aren't even any fans running when it is in S3 sleep mode.

From cold, boot up takes about 45-60 seconds on my machine, but again, this will vary with system specification. That time doesn't bother me though - its about the same as standalone players but also lets me use the Internet & play games so I think 45-60 seconds is very reasonable...

As for the sound, I'm pretty sure this will eventually get sorted out - there are a LOT of users shouting about this so something needs to be done. Its daft when you think about it - its done to stop you recording the full uncompressed soundtrack... So whats to stop you taking the 8 channel analog audio from a standalone player & sticking it into a PC with a soundcard that supports 8 channel input, then recording it that way?

Either way, it doesn't bother me too much - even the downsampled stuff sounds absolutely excellent to my ears. I'm loving the entertainment experience so far.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 08 Jan 2008, 18:16

You learn something new every day

Region free BR! crikey, will have to look into that now, a quiet PC that plays BR from anywhere, sounds like the best option to me!

May well look into the Blu Ray for my PC now, I had not bothered becuase I did not like the price of them, but for region free its probibly worth it.

IronMonkey · Post by **IronMonkey** » 08 Jan 2008, 18:48

If you've already got a PC, get the LG GGW-H20L for around £180, then get Power DVD Ultra. Add in AnyDVD HD & you've got the perfect Blu Ray & HD DVD setup.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 08 Jan 2008, 19:28

Thats a turn up for the books, great price and something I never even knew existed for anything like normal cash!

Reading the reviews it seems like a superb little unit, the fact it burns HD discs is something I would not expect.

I may well look into investing in one when I get my new PC set up, as hell its cheaper than a PS3

IronMonkey · Post by **IronMonkey** » 08 Jan 2008, 19:44

Yeah, way cheaper! It won't burn HD DVDs but it does burn BD-R & BD-RE in both 25GB & 50GB formats. Its a nice backup option & my drive came with a 25GB BD-RE thrown in!

Right now I'm trying to find a cool & quiet graphics card with hardware HD acceleration (ATi's AVIVO HD or nVidia's PureVideo). I'm leaning towards ATi as they support hardware acceleration of both BD & HD DVD, whereas nVidia only support BD...

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 08 Jan 2008, 19:57

Even if it only played HD DVD and Blu Ray thats worth the price right there, the fact it does all kinds of dvds and cd and burns Blu Rays means its an amazing piece.

I just do not see any downside for that sort of cash, well as long as your PC is capable of using it

Sounds frankly gobsmaking to me

cheaper than buying Blu ray and HD DVD players thats for sure.

IronMonkey · Post by **IronMonkey** » 08 Jan 2008, 21:01

If you do go down the LG route, I recommend a graphics card which supports HD codec hardware acceleration to go with it, as it'll offload the BD / HD DVD decoding from the CPU, leaving it free to do other stuff...

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 08 Jan 2008, 22:39

IronMonkey wrote:You don't have to leave it on for the EPG update, as you can set VMC to automatically look for a new version when you run it, so thats not a biggie.

Assuming the EPG populates quickly and efficiently fair enough.

IronMonkey wrote:From cold, boot up takes about 45-60 seconds on my machine, but again, this will vary with system specification. That time doesn't bother me though - its about the same as standalone players but also lets me use the Internet & play games so I think 45-60 seconds is very reasonable...

Neither do I.

IronMonkey wrote:So whats to stop you taking the 8 channel analog audio from a standalone player & sticking it into a PC with a soundcard that supports 8 channel input, then recording it that way?

Nothing. They're uber paranoid about "digital" being protected though.

IronMonkey wrote:Even the downsampled stuff sounds absolutely excellent to my ears. I'm loving the entertainment experience so far.

Well all HD Discs offer you minimum the equivalent of Half-Rate DTS (roughly).

romerojpg wrote:You learn something new every day Region free BR! crikey, will have to look into that now, a quiet PC that plays BR from anywhere, sounds like the best option to me!

Yeah AnyDVD cracked it in the PC world months and months ago.

I like the idea of a HTPC but I'm still not convinced it's not too much hassle. I don't remotely need half what a HTPC could offer me. I already have a laptop plugged into a 19" WS TFT.

At the end of the day it has Windows at the Core which makes it way more complicated than a standard DVD Player ever is. The problems with BD will be ironed out given time and it will be a fully stable and complete product.

IronMonkey · Post by **IronMonkey** » 08 Jan 2008, 22:53

Ah but my Vista Media Center is fully stable & complete product right now.

As a matter of fact, its recording Lethal Weapon 3 & another TV show for me right now.

I'm just going to add a graphics card for hardware HD codec acceleration & then its complete.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 08 Jan 2008, 23:34

IronMonkey wrote:Ah but my Vista Media Center is fully stable & complete product right now.

Touché

It's definitely tempting and maybe one day.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 09 Jan 2008, 17:58

I think you have sold me, reserching the LG seems there is no drawback for that cash. I was going to get an extra drive anyway to add to the one I just ordered and that would have been £25, so another £145 gets me a multiregion Blu Ray and HD DVD player, my system should handle everything HD with ease.

Only thing is the sound I never thought I would need anything more than a basic Sound card so did not order a great one, guess I will have to upgrade that to get the HD sound then if my Graphic card aint got the gubbins

Depending on my systems overall volume that is, as I have made as far as I can tell a silent system, but you never know till you get it (still my HD DVD players bloody noisey anyway, so its bound to beat that).

All food for thought and hell its nice to know these drives are down in price and do so much, I still thought they were poor and cost £500, how wrong was I .

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 09 Jan 2008, 19:52

It's likely your basic sound card will be built into the motherboard so it's thrown in for free and therefore no big deal to add an separate one.

If you think about it there is much less to a PC drive than a full on player. It allows them to drop the price so much.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 09 Jan 2008, 20:27

When I said Basic I meant its not a top of the line one

its a lot better than the Motherboard one which did not have many connections like Digital out etc... for my amp

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 09 Jan 2008, 23:02

Ah you choice to upgrade it, fair enough.

On board sound cards rarely never have anything more than basic connections, a few do on expensive motherboards but they're not the norm.

I've not bought a separate sound card for over 10 years now. I stopped playing games so only need basic CD Quality. I thought about getting a PCMCIA sound card for my laptop but decided I don't need it.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 10 Jan 2008, 19:36

I just noticed I probibly will be able to get HD sound from my card

Ordered this cheap one

http://www.soundblaster.com/products/pr ... duct=16770

and from the look of it it will (at the least) downmix the HD sound. I can connect it to my amp with 7.1 annalogue cables or Optical.

So I cannot see any reason for me not to get the Blu Ray Drive now

little bit more looking into the exact details, but its looking good for me I guess. Glad I upgraded from the mother board sound now.

Good job I looked at Iron Monkeys new system posts or I would never have seen the PC HD units for sale at all, and probibnly would not have looked into them in any way as in my mind they were still too costly.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 10 Jan 2008, 20:15

That looks like a nice sound card.

romerojpg wrote:I can connect it to my amp with 7.1 annalogue cables or Optical.

As it's all downmixed by the sounds of it (going by what IM says) you may as well just use Optical. If not I'd say connect by both connections (Optical Lossy, Analogue Lossless).

(Digital) Optical will give you better than analogue outputs when it's all downmixed anyway. I wonder if PCM is downmixed too (as found on many BDs) as that downmixed is only Stereo. I can see TrueHD or DTS-HD being downmixed but it's possible PCM isn't. IM wasn't clear which exactly are downmixed.

That said I'm not 100% if Optical accepts 7.1. It works with 6.1 so I'd guess it can but have never checked.

romerojpg wrote:and probibnly would not have looked into them in any way as in my mind they were still too costly.

Compared to a DVD Writer they are. That's what they need to be compared against as unlike a HD Player they require extra hardware to work.

I take your point though.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 10 Jan 2008, 20:37

Thing is if I can play HD DVD's as well and as easy etc.., I may well sell my HD DVD player and DVD player. Depending on end quality of a LG combo compared to my current equipment, I doubt its that good, but its an option.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 10 Jan 2008, 20:59

You may want to consider a remote if you're going to use it as your main player.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 10 Jan 2008, 22:13

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 10 Jan 2008, 22:51

LG GGW-H20L can be had for maybe £130! jees thats even cheaper.

Its even £140 on Play

then add discounts on top of that.

Its strange as there seems so many version of it knocking about ranging from say £130 to over £200. Seems they all have slightly different features like re-writing etc..

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 10 Jan 2008, 23:19

You've managed to get Play vouchers?

Its strange as there seems so many version of it knocking about ranging from say £130 to over £200. Seems they all have slightly different features like re-writing etc..

Are they the same model number? What do you mean rewind? That's a software function on PC's.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 11 Jan 2008, 14:20

Play have discounts available on Quidco and other sites, 6% I think it is on Quidco

so there a bit off already.

The LG writers they are the same,

but one can read only, one can do Roms as well, and one can burn Blu Rays from what I can tell

the Blu Ray Burner is the most costly, so if you were not after Blu Ray burning you could get a cheaper one I guess.

Found the thread over at AVForums about the players, very helpful seeing what people think of them, seems everyone is very happy.