Ken Livingstone - should he apologise for his comments?

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 24 Feb 2005, 17:59

Now I hate political correctness, but IMO Tony Blair is right to tell the Mayor to apologise for his comments towards that Jewish reporter. Why doesnt he do the decent thing and say sorry?

AFAIK what he actually said was "You are doing it [what is "it"?] because you're paid, you're like a Nazi concentration camp guard", and then covered it up by saying he was referring to the Mirror group of papers?

AFAIK he STILL won't apologise, and has even acknowledged that he offended Jews.

Everyone, your thoughts?

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 24 Feb 2005, 18:11

if he doesn't think he's wrong why apologise?wouldn't any apology be a little hollow as he clearly wouldn't mean it?

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 24 Feb 2005, 18:36

Good point there, salty.

gasteropod · Post by **gasteropod** » 24 Feb 2005, 18:59

What seems to be the problem... he said a concentration camp GUARD, so it's not taking the mickey out of him being Jewish is it - I hate bullshit like this

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 24 Feb 2005, 19:17

Livingstone is an arse at any rate, but he's already said any apology wouldn't be sincere, so what would be the point?

Isn't the problem that he made his remark because the reporter was Jewish, not in spite of? An intentionally hurtful slur?

I agree with Grim though, that this Political Correctness has gotten way out of control. If you're an Anglo-Saxon male you might as well get "racist" stamped on your forehead. In Livingstone's case "muppet" would do...

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 24 Feb 2005, 20:46

I'm with Salty.

I'd have a big problem apologising for not doing something wrong to please other people.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 25 Feb 2005, 09:17

If it was intentionally hurtful, isnt that more reason to say sorry Mark?
I agree though, if he doesnt mean it, it sounds hollow, so theres' no point. I still hate PC-ness

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 25 Feb 2005, 13:33

Political correctness is very important in society but the problem is it's taken far to far.

For example I work in the police force and it's gone so far you can't say blackboard any more, you can't say lady as it apparently offends lesbians (you need to say women which has always sounded more insulting to me anyway). You're not allowed to say nitty gritty as the phrase derived from slavery.

The fact no one means it in this context anymore seems to have eluded the people in power.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 25 Feb 2005, 14:22

Banning the word "blackboard" is ludicrous, thats just a describing word (ie the board is black).

Does it suggest whiteboards are inferior?

If youre going to stop saying blackboard dont say whiteboard (marker pen board?) either.

I agree with you, "Nitty Gritty" is silly too, it is used as a colliqual word for "really important" or something like that 99% of the time. Why ban that word?

I didnt even know it was connected with slavery until you told me, but as always with language (as you said) it is not the word itself but the context in which it is used which "may" be offensive (IMO). People should remember that. No-one means it in the slavery context.

I remember all the hoo-ha in the 90's that you couldnt say baa baa black sheep anymore as it was "racist" and kids would sing baa baa white sheep. If anything is racist, it is the deliberate changing of black to white.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 25 Feb 2005, 19:22

grim_tales wrote:If it was intentionally hurtful, isnt that more reason to say sorry Mark?
I agree though, if he doesnt mean it, it sounds hollow, so theres' no point. I still hate PC-ness

You answered your own question... Sorry, would only be worth saying if he meant it.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 25 Feb 2005, 19:24

bradavon wrote:Political correctness is very important in society

Why? What good does it serve? To me PC is just a set of moral guidelines for people who can't think for themselves.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 17 Mar 2005, 16:50

I always thought that he insulted the journalist without knowing that the journalist in question was jewish - i think it was a conversation that took place over the phone and he just rattled on at the guy and said that remark as he would have to anyone he was pissed at. I dont think it was directed at him because he was jewish.

If the above is true and he didnt know then i dont think he should apologise at all - people insult each other all the time and far worse gets said - this is just PC taking overboard.