Should under 15's be given alcohol?

[grim_tales]

I've been reading/hearimg that the Governments latest idea to curb teenage drinking - is that parents should be prosecuted for giving alcohol to children who are under 15.
I see the idea, but really IMO its not alcohol that's the problem but our silly use of it. In Italy and France, children drink wine (diluted?) from an early age with their food AFAIK. Teach kids how to drink and appreciate it, and then it won't be abused.
Anyway, current UK law says "you can drink alcohol in your own home" by the time you are 5. But how many pissed 6 year olds have you seen? It doesnt mean parents give little kids beer/wine.
I had my first beer when I was 12 I think, I hated it It was Sainsbury's French lager which tastes horrid

[romerojpg]

Er no, only fools give kids alcohol, thats most of france then.

Its for ADULTS, not children. It KILLS brain cells, children cannot handle it well and do die from it if have even a little to much, adults die but its their own informed choice as most people are thick as pig shit and still drink loads.

[tom2681]

Yep, kids over here drink beer when they're 12 and wine when they're 14.
I don't see how that can be bad. I had my first beer when I was 6 and I didn't turn out to be an alcoholic.

Alcohol is very good for your health (if you drink it in small quantity of course).

parents should be prosecuted for giving alcohol to children who are under 15.

I agree with that.
Parents shouldn't give alcohol to children.
Children should be allowed to buy alcohol on their own.

[grim_tales]

There wouldnt be a problem if kids were responsible. Maybe if parents let kids have some wine/beer occasionally with food and taught responsibility, it would be OK
Is teenage drinking a problem in France Tom? In Spain, you can buy beer in school (secondary school) AFAIK
I had wine (diluted) once at a party or something, it was still pretty strong.

[Markgway]

I think a little sip or measure is harmless if given out responsibly (like say with a meal or on a special occasion). But of course parents shouldn't be out buying carry outs for kids so they can get pissed (and believe it or not some parents do!) If you use common sense it's fine: but too many don't. But when you consider how irresponsible British adults are with alcohol how can you expect their brats to be any different?

[grim_tales]

I agree with you Mark, parents shouldn't be buying it for their kids with the weekly shop But it's OK in moderation (as most things are), say with a meal or celebration

[romerojpg]

The UK is a pool of shit when it comes to alcohol, kids drink more than the adults. I think alcohol should be banned, but thats never gonna happen. It causes so many problems its staggering.

[tom2681]

Is teenage drinking a problem in France Tom?

Not that I know of.
Many teenagers drink, but I don't think that it's a bigger problem in France than in other countries.

I'll have to do some research. Statistics rulez !
*Pours himself another drink*

Teenage smoking is much more problematic IMO.

[Shingster]

Governments just passing the buck onto parents again, the vast majority of kids that get pissed do so out on the streets by buying it either themselves or getting someone else to. This topic takes me back to my teen years! Who here still drinks 20/20, Thunderbirds, Special Red or White Lightning?

[grim_tales]

What are they?
Shingster isn't it partly the parenting (or lack of it) that some kids/teens are how they are? Lack of role models?

[tom2681]

Flucking hell !
We drink more binge than the Irish do !

[Shingster]

What are they?
Shingster isn't it partly the parenting (or lack of it) that some kids/teens are how they are? Lack of role models?

Well obviously parents have an influence on their children, but teen drinking goes far beyond the issue of parental influence. Of all the kids in my year and below at school, just about every single one of them had been drunk regularly by their 16th birthday and only a couple I knew had alcoholic parents, whilst only a small percentage had heavy drinking parents.

It's all bullshit Labour spin, they're just trying to deflect blame for the binge drinking culture in this country after allegations of making the issue worse when they relaxed the laws on licensing hours.

If the government want to target a subgroup of adults that are helping kids get pissed week in week out, then they should clamp down heavily on the chavs that go into off-licenses and buy booze on behalf of kids in exchange for a fiver or packet of fags. Of course it's practically impossible to monitor people who buy booze in stores/off licenses, just like it's extremely difficult to properly monitor parents allowing their children access to booze, which just goes to show how futile the law really is. Of course, putting issues out there that suggest parents are the major contributing factor towards britains youth boozing problems doesn't hurt the government's image at all.

[bradavon]

I think more kids should be given alcohol so it's not so much of a surprise when they start drinking it later in life. So instead of the current reality where kids gets pissed they will understand at an earlier age to be responsible with it.

As per usual the person who started this is pretty clueless. It needs a change in society to the attitude to alcohol and that very much includes adults and parents too. Kids just copy the older people around them.

That said this is all blown out of proportion a bit, it's a right of passage which most of us go through then grow up.

Yep, kids over here drink beer when they're 12 and wine when they're 14.
I don't see how that can be bad. I had my first beer when I was 6 and I didn't turn out to be an alcoholic.

They do here too and it's legal too, from 5 upwards.

These debates are interesting but the thing is we all know exactly what we're each going to say before we start. Mark and Romero will say it's wrong (as Romero on cue did), Grim, Tom will say it's fine.

[Markgway]

I can speak for myself thanks.

[bradavon]

Please do. I suggest you re-read what I said because I never said you cannot

I bet you're going to agree and say children should be given less, are you not?

[romerojpg]

So can I fool!

Get some fact together and then come back I say. Alcohol ruins massive amounts of lives every year and kills millions of people and massive amounts of people die from wankers who get drunk and drive and Kill etc... Having lost a few people I have known over the years to them pieces of shit who drink drive and get away with murder.

Then add in scum children drinking on streets in mobs and basically Alchol is not needed at all.

It kills brain cells, obvuiously people who think its good for kids have drank way to much when they were kids. Or they are just drunk when they are online. Give more to them, what a idiot. Its proven to do damage, yeah lets give them more.

[tom2681]

It kills brain cells

Who told you that ? / Where did you read that ?

I know that alcohol in huge quantities can slow down brain activity, and that it can kill defective/weak brain cells in small quantities (which is a good thing), but I've never heard of alcohol killing healthy brain cells.

If anything, alcohol is known to INCREASE cognitive abilities, not the opposite.

[Shingster]

lol Tom, I find it best not to point out or challenge anything Romero says when he tries to be "sientifik" or "pohlitikul", it's best for our sanity that way .

[tom2681]

I don't care.
He makes a statement, I want to know his source.

I'm positive alcohol does NOT kill brain cells.
I'm positive alcohol is GOOD for your health.

[Killer Meteor]

As Homer once said

"Oh Lisa, you and your stories! Bart is a vampire, beer kills brain cells. Now let's got back to that...place...where our beds and TV...is"

[romerojpg]

Seriously if you dont know what getting "drunk" is about, dont say its good for you. As most normal people do not drink a little thats for sure (well maybe in France).

Its not doing your brain good when you get drunk you know it casuses brain damage, or your liver, heart, mental health or cancer. Maybe a little sip now and again of "certain" drinks, but most people (esspecially in the UK) do not drink small amounts and do not drink the ones which may be good for you. Getting drunk is what people do in the UK, they have so much they can barley walk, most people dont have 1 pint and leave it at that.



I could go on, but you obviously think its good for you so wont bother. But hell you may know it causes sexual problems as well but hey thats not your brain I am sure.

[Markgway]

Drinking in moderation isn't bad for you... excessive binge drinking is.

And that's the problem the UK has right now.

The French have a couple of glasses of red with their steak.

The Brits have a couple of bottles with their shots and pints.

We should follow the European example of responsible drinking.

It is true that children cannot handle as much alcohol as adults because their organs haven't fully developed yet. Just as men can intake more than women, adults can intake more than children. Like I said a modicum now and again isn't going to do any harm, but allowing children to drink too much or too often will damage their health in one way or another.

[romerojpg]

I rarley see other countries (except America maybe) showing people getting pissed out of their brains. The UK is a scummy country in that way, I hate that culture myself the fighting, abuse and general effect they have on good people ruins nights out for people who drink with a brain behind their eyes.

More children get pissed out of their minds now in the UK than at any other time, its gettting way out of control, and they get away with murder so theres bugger all anyone can do about it. The Police have little power to stop it thats for sure.

[Shingster]

Haha! It's taken just over one page for Romero to start painting a picture of total social chaos here in good old blighty. Not bad, not bad at all.

[gojensen]

Alcohol is a potentially addictive substance. A 2001 report estimates that medium and high consumption of alcohol led to 75,754 deaths in the USA. Low consumption has some beneficial effects so a net 59,180 deaths were attributed to alcohol.

Details

An international team of researchers report that 3.6% of all cancer cases worldwide are related to alcohol drinking, resulting in 3.5% of all cancer deaths

source

the damage to the brain cells, for the most part, isn't permanent. The brain repairs itself but the recovery process does change nerve-cell structure. So most function returns to normal but some does not. (...) A drink doesn't kill brain cells. It damages the way brain cells communicate and the damage is largely reversible.

source

It appears that large enough quantities of alcohol can impair brain development in rats and that it can also do the same in humans. There’s no surprising news there. (...) There appears to be absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the light or moderate consumption of alcohol by persons under the age of 21 causes any brain impairment or harm. (...) Drinking alcohol with parents “may help teach them responsible drinking habits or extinguish some of the ‘novelty’ or ‘excitement’ of drinking” according to senior researcher Dr. Kristie Long Foley of the School of Medicine at Wake Forest University.

source

The researchers concluded that age at first drink is not causally associated with alcoholism but is associated with a wide range of indicators of disinhibited behavior and psychopathology. Individuals who first drank at an early age exhibited high rates of disinhibitory behavior and psychopathology before they first try alcohol.

source

(...) another research study has found evidence suggesting that early onset of drinking is not a cause of drinking problems. Researchers again found that by monitoring young children’s behavior they could predict subsequent alcohol problems. (...) The researchers found that low behavioral control and resiliency predicted the onset of alcohol and illicit drug use in adolescence.

source

So... I must say reading those posts by David Hanson makes alcohol consumption sound way too beneficial and there's no problems with it at all. He's apparently working at the State University of New York at Potsdam... I don't know.

What I do know is that if you are training regulary excessive drinking (i.e. getting DRUNK) will set you back 2 weeks - about the time it takes for your body to get rid of all remnants of the alcohol, reverse/rebuild cells and be prepared for new challenges. Then again we're not discussing low to moderate consumption? The problem with alcohol is usually related to the more excessive binging folks do.

And Tom, I'm pretty sure there was alcohol involved with all the riots over in France... It gets people fired up (or maybe you would blame that on the "ignorant minority/immigrants"?)

I think it's clear as day that a low consumption of 1-2 alcoholic units / day is beneficial to you. My physiotherapist even said as much, but stated that it was not something they would go public with as it would give those with a problem more excuses to continue drinking themselves to death.

Personally I think all alcoholic beverages taste like crap... and much like smoking, I think it's just silly to do it. Then again, I think as with Britain, not many folks really have low to moderate consumption here. If you're going out your going to need at least a 6 pack of strong beer just to get started (and that's already 4-5 units more than needed )

Another bad thing about alcohol is the relatively high amount of carbs and calories. There's a good reason "drunkards" often get that beer belly (of course if you drink enough you stop eating and then that won't be a big problem... but look around you when you're drinking at the local pub eh?)

As for children... well, no children here have low consumption simply because they are prohibited by law from doing so.

Research have shown though that children with parents that supply them with alcohol on average drink more than their peers which are not supplied with alcohol from the home; simply put they drink the same "illegal" amount as their peers in addition to the amount they got "legally" at home.

So if kids drink 10 beers on average on a Friday, and I'd give my son a sixpack when he went out, research shows that he would then consume a total of 16 beers.